DA: SA shouldn't be neutral on Syria

2012-07-20 21:00

Johannesburg - South Africa should move away from its neutral stance regarding the conflict in Syria, the DA said on Friday.

"While the death toll in Syria continues to rise, South Africa’s representatives in the UN Security Council have once again abstained from voting in support of decisive UN action in Syria," said Democratic Alliance international relations spokesperson Ian Davidson.

"Once again, the department of international relations and co-operation (Dirco) is allowing autocratic regimes with poor human rights records to dictate South Africa’s foreign policy," he said in a statement.

On Thursday, Russia and China vetoed a security council resolution to extend a United Nations observer mission in Syria for 45 days.

There were 11 votes in favour of the resolution in the 15-nation council.

South Africa and Pakistan abstained.

"The dream of a negotiated settlement will never be realised without more decisive initial steps to de-escalate the violence," said Davidson.

South Africa should not be caught on the wrong side of history, following its indecision on UN action in Libya, he said.

South Africa was losing credibility with western and Arab League nations as a country which believed in human rights and international order.

"Dirco fence-sitting raises questions about our capacity to make tough decisions which may offend some of our more dubious friends," said Davidson.

International Relations and Co-operation Deputy Minister Ebrahim Ebrahim said in Pretoria on Friday that South Africa had abstained from the vote because the resolution was "unbalanced".

"... It only targeted the Syrian government," Ebrahim told reporters.

"It said nothing about the opposition, who are now fighting in the capital [Damascus]," he said.

The rebel forces in Syria were not just defending themselves, but were on the offensive and wanted to take power, Ebrahim said.

The resolution also threatened Syrian authorities with sanctions if they did not stop using heavy weapons against the uprising, and withdraw troops from towns and cities.

Ebrahim said South Africa supported the extension of the deadline for the UN mission in Syria, but said the resolution should not have included the issue of sanctions.

The Russians were against this aspect of the resolution too, as they said it could open the door to military intervention.

South Africa is a non-permanent member of the UNSC.

In a communiqu on Syria, the UN said the crisis between the government and the opposition movement had "continued unabated" since an uprising against President Bashir Assad began about 16 months ago.

The UN estimated that more than 10 000 people, mostly civilians, had been killed in the fighting, and tens of thousands displaced.

  • fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-20 21:41

    You are being disingenuous and misleading, it's no wonder you will forever be in opposition. The SA/Russian/Pakistani/Chinese governments had one issue with UK/West sponsored draft: "It only targeted the Syrian government, It said nothing about the opposition, who are now fighting in the capital [Damascus]," Why is there no requirement for the opposition to be censured if they break Annan's peace plan. Why is the terrorist opposition being given a free pass to do as they please, engage in acts of terrorism against the Syrian state and expect the Syrian government not to respond. Why should any self respecting country support this blatant one sided travesty? The UNSC's role is to mediate in conflicts and not to support one side over another. Libya has corrupted a lot of people who think it is acceptable for Nato to bomb other countries.

      keith.murphy.9638 - 2012-07-20 21:48

      You right fidel

      Hermann - 2012-07-20 22:05

      Speaking of terrorism the Syrian State (government) is a classical example of state sponsored terrorism.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-20 22:21

      Which terrorist do they sponsor?

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-20 23:37

      There never was a peace plan because the Syrian Govt simply never stopped their assault on the rebels. That is why all the reasonable responsible democratic governments represented on the Security Council voted to ratchet up the pressure on Assad and his regime. What is really troubling is that our constitution compels us to take a stand against non democratic human rights abusers such as Syria's Assad regime. Just as South Africans were justified in fighting against the NP government because it was non democratic and abused human rights, so are the Syrians and any South African with an ounce of humanity should support them in that fight. Why does our Government chose to fly in the face of the condemnation of human rights? Because the communist who are Jacob Zumas supporters in Government want to toady up to their Russian and Chinese counterparts. So why dont you Fidel off to a non democratic communist country like Cuba, where you would be jailed for posting blogs on the internet?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 02:11

      There's little to discuss with Fidel. To him the West is evil, and through this highly immature lens, he unwittingly opposes greater human rights, and supports the murder of civilians in their homes by unelected dictators. He doesn't know he's doing this and defends his position vociferously. ,

      jabulani.hlophe.52 - 2012-07-21 08:11

      Fully support your view it was unbalanced and should hold also opposition into account as well its just that different powers have their own agendas why has the west and the gulf puppets have not been so loud on bahrain mr davidson must answer that first

      scebberish.umfazi - 2012-07-21 08:36

      Fidel, (or is it infidel) So when 99% of a country is fighting for its freedom while 1% of the non-elected want to hold on to corrupt power, thats terrorism? Ask 99% of Libya what it thinks of the bombing and being rid of another no-elected dictator, and how about Egypt, all those 99% terrorists overthrowing the 1% non-elected government. So its ok then if the whites put the apartheid government back in no-eleceted power by your reasoning. (mind you, you may have a point there)

      raymond.abrahamse - 2012-07-21 08:41

      Fidel...Fidel? Yes he should rather go live in Cuba,the land of Fidel Castro.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 08:53

      @Mfazindini Did you suck the 99% out of your thumb? Why does it gain you to blur facts this way in an honest debate? @Kevin You spent good amount of time creating your post, only to throw the mantra of sensibility aside to make a stupid comment like that at the end. Why?

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 09:04

      Fidel, I agree Fidel, 99 % is a bit exaggerated, its more like 95 % !!!

      alon.fisher.752 - 2012-07-21 10:23

      Oh and its acceptable for Russia/China/Iran to arm country's slaughtering their own in the fashion Syria is doing?

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 10:33

      I know that Russia has sent weapons to Syria as part of its contractual obligations to that country. There is no weapons' embargo on Syria.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 11:30

      Russia and Syria have defense contracts and Syria is being attacked by armed terrorists who are being armed by Turkey, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the west's alphabet agencies. If Russia doesn't meet its contractual obligations, which countries would ever want to do business with that country? Both the US and Britain supplied and are still supplying arms to Bahrain whilst it was/is busying crushing a peaceful revolution in that country. They are the SCUM of the earth as well. Africa will forever be grateful to Russia for their assistance during the struggle for liberating Africa from the western colonial vampires.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 16:08

      It may please you to go meet your maker.... See if he condones, which I doubt much, your nonsense. You are as dumb as you write!

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:27

      Fidel you are quite wrong I wrote that comment in 1 minute. I, having fought the fight against apartheid for 20 years dislike the stupid people who justify human rights abuses for what ever reason where ever they occur. When I read these comments I regret having fought against apartheid. It is benefiting fools who have no appreciation of humanity.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:31

      Fidel you are so anti the US and the West you will support or justify any dictatorship killing and abusing their populace. All those people want is what people like myself fought for in this country to benefit idiots like you. As I said why dont you Fidel off to one of those countries and enjoy yourself.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 17:43

      The problem with imbeciles like you is that you have a binary view of the world, which borders on intellectual laziness. It's either you are with us or against us. Your brain hasn't reached a level of maturity to appreciate that there are always shadings of grey. You want to debate geo-politics with the emotions of a two year old. The world is not as simple as that. In the mean time I expect a moment of reflective silence on your part to think things through.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 18:48

      There cannot be a more "binary" world view than holding the belief that an entire hemisphere is evil. Fidel holds the highly immature belief that the West is evil. His Higher Self is trying to get through TO HIM that HIS VIEW is binary, distorting true reality. Fidel has blinded himself.

      alf.pop - 2012-07-21 20:12

      The problem is our government is unable to make up0 their minds and take decisions. it is suffering from decision paralysis, until some body comes along and shakes the fence they love sitting on.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 21:14

      Fidel, I do not need any time to reflect on people like you who would justify crimes against humanity by murerous regimes because they are anti the West. A binary view of politics would be 100% bigger than yours. I only wish I did have a narrow untutored view of the world such as yours. It wopuld have made the choices in my life simpler. I would have left South Africa in 1972 (when I finished my studies) and made a life elsewhere. Instead I felt for the people opressed under apartheid, and I stayed and fought the fight for bloody ingrates such as you. Your narrow blinkered view of the world and your failure to condemn crimes against humanity because the perpetrators are anti American,turns my stomach. Your poor education and limited cognisance of the world around us is compounded by your lack of humanity. As I said fidel off to Zimbabwe or North Korea or Cuba China and see how those countries and their leaders, of your admiration, treat those who disagree with them.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 22:16

      Don't flatter yourself, you didn't fight for anyone but your own stomach. You couldn't resist being surrounded by poorly paid servants.

  • fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-20 21:47

    "The dream of a negotiated settlement will never be realised without more decisive initial steps to de-escalate the violence," said Davidson. How do you propose this de-escalation of violence Mr Davidson. Does your solution include both sides agreeing to a cease fire, how about stopping the arms inflow into the country. What is the DA'solution Mr Davidson??

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-20 23:40

      Tell that to the Russians and Iranians idiot, Ian davidson and the DA are not supplying any one with weapons. The Russians and Iranians are the major arms suppliers.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 02:16

      Fidel missed the eleven months of peaceful demonstrations by tens of thousands of Syrians, met by the killing of thousands by Assad with sniper-fire, and the detention, torture and rape of tens of thousands more. To him, this didn't happen. His immature world map distorted it, even blocked it out. He simply didn't see it.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 08:55

      @Kevin Idiocy comes with all trace of self-awareness removed. Name calling is silly.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:36

      Fidel it costs extra write "idiot" on a tombstone but for you it would be a pleasure.

      JohanMaree - 2012-07-21 16:40

      Kevin, not to be insensitive to the plight of the people, but I would have to raise the fact that the only reason the opposition is getting better at countering the gov is because they get supplied weapons from the west, this might have started of as a Syria internal battle for power, but this is now between the west and east if you look at the bigger picture, unfortunately for the Syrian people, they are in the middle of the playing field. Don't be naive, its not about right and wrong its about power(money). I support the DA because of their quality Governing, but I think we should sit on the fence on this one, we want both side's investment (West and East) Lets the two dogs fight over the bone, we can be the third one taking off with it...

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 17:44

      Johan, the West is not supplying them weapons. Turkey, Qatar and Saudi Arabia are. Unfortunately the West and freer world are allowing the neo-Communist Russian and Chinese regimes to determine the world's response to the obvious plight of the Syrian people trying to free themselves from decades of oppressive dictatorship.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 18:28

      Johan, intl relations is primarily about commerce and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. The west like the Russians and the Chinese have their own geo-political interests in Syria. This is the West's ineterest; "We hope Iraq will be the first domino and that Libya and Iran will follow. We don't like being of markets because it gives our competitors an unfair advantage," John Gibson, chief executive of Halliburton's Energy Service Group, International Oil Daily 7th May of 2003 (less than 7 weeks after the invasion of Iraq) This was during the time when D. Cheney was VP of the US and a shareholder in Halliburton. The second question is why these specific countries. If you can answer this, you are closer to understanding what western imperialism entails.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 18:30

      Moderator, stop censoring my post, there is nothing profane or abusive about my post.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 18:50

      In Fidel's emotionally disconnected, binary world, international relations is about commerce only. He'd flunk International Relations at EVERY university. This is why he's blogging, not in class.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 21:32

      Johan, I do not know if you are old enough to know, but the weapons that the rebels are using in Syria, are without exception Russian. In every news clip I have seen I have seen no British, French, US or Israeli weapons in the hands of the rebels. So would you have us believe that the rebels are being given used weapons bought from the Russians by the west. The reason that rebels are getting more effective is simple, on the news tonight it was announced that 28 senior military officers( Generals and Colonels) from the Syrian army have sought asylum in Turkey. They defect and their troops become rebels with the arms they were issued. Ther is no bigger picture the Syrians having seen and read what happened in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt and being aware of the freedom and relative prosperity in Lebanon and Turkey, they want that. I could care less if you support the DA, I supported that party before Tony Leon made his giant lurch to the right and now they along with the ANC UDM Inkata and COPE are a plague on this country.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 22:13

      Kevin, you are really gullible if you thought the west would supply its own weapons to its mercenaries. The AK-47 is the most popular assault rifle in the word and can be bought anywhere. What weapons were the Mujaheddin using in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Did the Russians supply them with those weapons. Weapons are bought and resold on the black market imbecile. You are naive and truly out of your depth. What do you think secret government agencies are for. Savimbi, a CIA armed stooge used Russian made weapons in Angola fighting against the Socialist, where do you think he got his weapons from, South Africa.

      sandy.langenstrass - 2012-07-22 13:14

      @fidel.mgoqi.....I have followed all these comments from start of this article....and while I read, what stood out was your ARROGANT attitude,why do you think you have all the answers to the Syrian problem? People are dying and the towns are being flattened...if you were living in Damascus, I'm sure your views would be completely different.....something must happen quick to help these folk....if they depended on Fidel....they would all die.

  • keith.murphy.9638 - 2012-07-20 21:47

    Good job done boys please wipe them all out flush those killers out of syria.Long live Assad I think in the meantime you can unleash some chemical stock pile on the two border fronts those so called rebel idiots are controling turn them into Zombies in the meantime

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 02:18

      Long live the unelected dictator of Syria, says the sociopath Keith. Kill anyone who wants to vote for their leaders. Spray them with nerve gas. Destroy their families and their homes. Kill, maim, destroy.

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 07:36

      One should not take any comments from this KEITH serious. This guy has got some mental problem, Not only does he propagate terrorism, and even genocide, both of which , even in SA are unlawful, but his comments are outrageous, to say the least! He seems more like a 14 year old, spun out of control ! Yesterday evening I made a short comment in the Africa section, re Egyptian President Morsi. "The Egyptians are very fortunate to have Morsi as their President" Keith his resonse was; ""Morsi with the shortest vorsi hahahah I think anthonyfrom africa likes morsis vorsi"" It can hardly get more bizarre!!!!

      scebberish.umfazi - 2012-07-21 08:30

      Murphy? Thats Irish. That says it all really, terrorism is part of thier faith.

  • Ditantane - 2012-07-20 21:48

    the DA is once again showing that they represent everything Ueropean.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-20 21:55

      Western Agents!

      Hermann - 2012-07-20 22:06

      Ueropean? New country or new region?

      Chad - 2012-07-20 22:20

      our government abstained from voting..... what is the point of sa priding itself on getting a spot on the un security council and then not voting. come on, show your colours pick a side, but as wit the south african leader, our government do nothing.... again. please give the spot on the un security council to a government with a backbone.....

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-20 22:49

      What would have SA government's voting achieved. The Russians and the Chinese had indicated that they were always going to vetoe this resolution after the UK refused to change certain aspects of the resolution. The UNSC is not a democracy were all votes are tallied and those with more votes win. It is either you agree with what is being voted on or you disagree by using the vetoe if you are a permanent member, which we are not. Should SA be rubber stamping a resolution which they made reservations about but were shunned at?

      chadjason.wilson - 2012-07-20 23:40

      Fidel South Africa did not vote. Russia and China did vote. A quote from a news room, "India was among the 11 countries that voted in favour of the resolution. Pakistan and South Africa abstained. The resolution could not be adopted as Russia and China, both permanent members of the Council, voted against it".

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-20 23:42

      What is European (assuming that is what you meant) about standing up for Human Rights and Democracy?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 02:20

      Fidel's immature anti-West belief at play again. The West is evil. Anyone who holds the same or similar view is an agent or puppet. Highly, highly immature.

      scebberish.umfazi - 2012-07-21 08:47

      Fidel, you must be schooled in Limpopo and vote ANC!! No one knows who voted what until all the votes are in, so SA had no idea what others would vote this time round. As for western agents, without western people you would be sh*tting in a hole in the ground outside your filthy kraal with no modern amenities. If you hate the west so much, throw away your phones and computer and give up your job, get some goats and disconnect from the national grid!!! Dont worry, you wont be missed.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 09:01

      @Wison Was that comment of mine too much for you? Why should SA vote for a resolution they don't agree with. What would have SA's voting achieved after both Russia and China had made it plain that they were going to veto the resolution?

      alon.fisher.752 - 2012-07-21 10:28

      Say that to any Syrian refugee Ditantane, howmuch you love Assad, Or even wear a pro Assad T-shirt in one of their refugee camps. and than see what happens.

      alon.fisher.752 - 2012-07-21 10:29

      SA govt abstained from voting but if Israel ends up in a war with any of its Arab neighbours our Government will be jumping up and down.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 11:01

      The US government supported the resolution but if Israel is being censured for acts against its Arab neighbours, they US government jumps up and down?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 18:51

      Fidel's binary and immature anti-West belief at play again, distorting reality.

  • eddy.deepfield - 2012-07-20 21:56

    South Africa as Russia's and Chinas plaything has no moral compass any more as it has been sold them. As long as the West is downed all the time they are happy, never mind the tanks killing innocent just Syrians like Gaddaffy did to his own people. We were on the wrong side there as well. History will judge us harshly.

  • Jacques Dawid De Villiers - 2012-07-20 22:12

    What a freakin joke.... Just 20 years ago the ANC was the opposition... Who wanted to seize power through force. By the definition the current government would abstain from voting to free themselves. I sometimes wonder if they actually listen to themselves?

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-20 22:25

      "Who wanted to seize power through force" But were intelligent and responsible often to realise that they couldn't defeat the Apartheid regime militarily so chose a negotiated settlement instead, without sacrificing the lives of thousands of Africans in pointless slaughter.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-20 23:47

      Fidel, just possibly they were a little scared to fight the good fight, and they were dealing with a bunch of NP idiots who had bankrupted the country and isolated themselves from the Western World because of their repugnant policy of apartheid, basically giving them no option but to negotiate with the ANC. It is the strongest argument for stiffer sanctions against Syria. Then again maybe logic isn't your strongest attribute.

      william.letsong.5 - 2012-07-21 07:01

      Fidel deserves a nobel idiot prize for being stupid. Go and collect it in Damascus.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 09:08

      Refute my points if you can with your own facts and\or logic when you can, that is the essence of intelligent debate. But you're just making ad hominem attacks because you have no arguement and want to try and stifle debate on this issue by being rude and ignorant. Still, can't be having any sort of knowledgeable discourse or rational debate here. Away with you!

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 10:15

      Fidel, ""But you're just making ad hominem attacks because you have no arguement"" AD HOMINEM One of the most widely misused terms on the Net is "ad hominem". It is most often introduced into a discussion by certain delicate types, DELICATE OF PERSONALITY AND MIND , whenever their opponents resort to a bit of sarcasm. As soon as the suspicion of an insult appears, they summon the angels of ad hominem to smite down their foes, before ascending to argument heaven in a blaze of sanctimonious glory. They may not have much up top, but by God, they don't need it when they've got ad hominem on their side. It's the secret weapon that delivers them from any argument unscathed.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 10:39

      AD HOMINEN An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an attempt to negate the truth of a claim by pointing out a negative characteristic or belief of the person supporting it.[1] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as a logical fallacy,[2][3][4] more precisely an informal fallacy and an irrelevance. Abusive ad hominem (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to attack his claim or invalidate his argument, but can also involve pointing out true character flaws or actions that are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This is logically fallacious because it relates to the opponent's personal character, which has nothing to do with the logical merit of the opponent's argument, whereas mere verbal abuse in the absence of an argument is not ad hominem nor any kind of logical fallacy.[6] Examples: "You can't believe John when he says the proposed policy would help the economy. He doesn't even have a job." Your are as stupid as stupid will ever be.....

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 11:12

      You radicals, have for EVERY word , your own interpretations. That't the reason, you all think you are sooo 'clever, A But all you radicals have ever done, is entertain each other, and have NEVER contributed ONE IOTA, to better this world. YOU ARE A BUNCH OF LOUSY LOSERS !!!

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 11:39

      "This is logically fallacious because it relates to the opponent's personal character, which has nothing to do with the logical merit of the opponent's argument" In other words, an ad hominen!

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 21:38

      Perhaps they should go back to teaching Latin in school again. Then those such as myself would not be alone in having learnt the language. I prefer however to use language that even the ill-educated can .

  • luyolo.mhlauli.9 - 2012-07-20 23:11

    My God I cant imagine what this country would have been like had a UN military intervention been implemented.Thank goodness in the end we chose words over guns.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 02:28

      Luyolu too totally misses what is actually going on. Syria is a haven of peace. Assad is the legitimate, albeit unelected, leader of the country. Nevermind the self-styled bloody surgeon of Syria is butchering anyone who doesn't do as he says, branding them terrorists, and only 12 of the 166 countries on Earth believe Assad is a legitimate leader. Like Fidel, Luyolu is living in a delusional bubble when it comes to Syria. He's also a racist.

      luyolo.mhlauli.9 - 2012-07-21 06:43

      Which means a military intervention was needed here too Fred ?????? I mean the very existence of the apartheid gOvt was based on a sick twisted beliefs. They too were butchers .They too represented a minority. They too were unelected .

      scebberish.umfazi - 2012-07-21 08:54

      Luyolo, you sure there were only words and no guns and bombs in SA before it changed, you may want to research that a little more dude!

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:45

      Do you know what the difference is between "a cease fire observer mission" and "military intervention"? Obviously not, the "cease fire observers" do not initiate action against anyone and often dont have weapons. Long before they got to Syria more than 10 000 people had been murdered by the Assad regime, who were using heavy weapons and helicopter gunships against civilians. Try reading it may improve your education.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 21:39

      It is highly unlikely a military intervention would have been needed, Luyolu, had the neo-Communist Russian and Chinese regimes stood together with the rest of the world, looked Assad in the eye, and said no, hand over power to a transitional authority. Instead we have no military intervention, AND Assad bring armed by Russia, AND absolute mayhem, death and destruction in much of Syria.

  • mark.kiggen.94 - 2012-07-21 06:54

    ITs obvious people, SA votes without hesitation for any resolution made against Israel, and abstains or votes against any resolution targeting Arab/moslem despots or Westerners..... Why? well, look at our International Relations and Co-operation Deputy Minister' name, Ebrahim Ebrahim! hmmmm, does that sound awfully moslem....?

  • atha.georgiades - 2012-07-21 07:45

    South Africa was right to abstain from the UN vote as the resolution drafted was one sided, aimed at forcing another illegal regime change. America and its puppet states UK, France and Germany would try anything to colonise another state in in the Middle East the name of "democracy".

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:48

      What is illegal about removing an illegal regime. The Assads came to power in a coup and when the dictator died his son took over. Atha law may not be your field of expertise, but nothing legal can arise out of an illegal action.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 17:32

      Really, so when did the Syrian government become illegal. How about the Kingdom of Swaziland, or Bahrain, Jordan, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Oman, etc. Are all of these governments illegal. I'd swear they were the darlings of the USA and her lackeys and enjoy full diplomatic privileges in all intl establishments. Or does Hillarious Clinton and William Hague decide the legitimacy of countries?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 17:49

      Atha and Fidel suffer from the same immature anti-West core-belief condition. Meanwhile hundreds of thousands of Muslims are being slaughtered and maimed by unelected dictators and Jihadists. They're part of the problem, not the solution. They don't know it because they've blinded themselves.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 21:53

      No government that is not chosen by its people in a free and fair elective process can claim legality. As a libertarian I hold no brief for government period, but the nondemocratic ones almost always abuse their populace like in Zimbabwe, Swaziland, much of the rest of Africa, the entire Gulf region, China, North Korea, Cuba etc. However that does not change anything as regards Syria. The Syrian regime is only legal if murdering your predecessor is a legitimate way to come to power. Syria has become a hereditary dictatorship like North Korea. That is just like the monarchies that governed Europe until 150 to 200 years ago, and who my ancestors fought against.

  • AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 08:46

    Fidel, Now that the end of this revolution is near, maybe you should give yourself a break, and take stock of yourself! It is obvious, that something has gone drastically wrong in your life ! You claim to be a 'proud' African. African, sure, but 'proud' that is very unlikely. The basis of any of your comments, HAS to be anti Western, it is silly and childish, but more important, it blinds you from any reality. The Africans, I got to know over the years, yes THEY are indeed PROUD people, and also very dignified, caring and compassionate. But these qualities don't appear to be with you. It is actually, the opposite,; undignified, uncaring and plain selfish. How else can you justify, your comment; that AID to Africa must be stopped,and than not only risking, but actually causing , the death of MILLIONS OF AFRICANS. The BITTERNESS in you, rules YOUR life. How can you possibly justify, that you care, even one iota about the Syrian people, if you don't give a damn about your own !!!!! Get a grip on your life, and put all this silly stuff away, and again become a PROUD African, you claim to be !!!

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 09:25

      I bow to no one in my dislike of Western Imperialist and their lackeys!

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 09:49

      Another silly Fidel coomment ! The plain fact is, you are on ther wrong side of history. You are without any doubt, the most dishonest and fake person, on these comment sites !!

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 10:20

      This is the problem with RADICALS, they are SOOO full of themselves. most of them have never held any job, they 'study' most of their lives, without contributing the slightest, to better this world. Their anti western obsession, it to entertain the ones who 'think' likewise !!!

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 10:36

      Another ad hominen post devoid of any logic or the topic at hand.

      alon.fisher.752 - 2012-07-21 10:37

      judging by your first name Fidel your views are not surprising.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 10:48

      Would you rather my name were Hillary, George, or Tony, how about Nicholas or Engela?

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 12:51

      Even Fidel Castro wouldf be disgusted, with you mis using his name, to propagate HATRED !!!

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:55

      Anthony, Fidel has no knowlege and is guided by predjudice. The US Government probably declined to issue him with a visa, so now he hates them. What he likes are the toys he plays with, cellphones, cars, computers etc, he also likes modern medicine, all the things created by the "hated" west. He also enjoys the free speech promoted by these hated westerners. All he should do is fidel off to one of those fountains of peace, prosperity, free speech and democracy like Cuba, North Korea, China or Zimbabwe(if he can afford the tickets to the others).

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 17:26

      Predictable, the staple diet of poorly constructed arguments. Your only success is making yourself look a fool. You have lost this argument, give it up before you make a bigger prat out of yourself. Cellphones, medicine, bloody hell...

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 17:51

      Here Fidel states his immature anti-West core belief clearly. It distorts the reality he sees, rendering real uprisings for freedom as fake revolutions (his words). He believes the neo-Communist Russian and Chinese regimes are going to bring democracy to the Middle East (his words again). He has blinded himself and doesn't know it.

  • dingane - 2012-07-21 08:49

    The unrest in the Arab states is mainly US (CIA) instigated. The object being to gain control of the oil and thereby the energy reserves of the world as part of its plan to control and govern the world. Compare for instance the present conditions in Iraq and Libya with the condition before the US war on those countries. The countries that support the US in its endeavours do so because they are already controlled by the US.

      scebberish.umfazi - 2012-07-21 09:00

      Another Limpopo graduate!

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 09:07

      Dinghane, WHERE the heck, do you get this CRAP from ??????

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 16:57

      Same place Thabo Mbeki got his views on AIDS. He should have gone to live in one of those countries.

  • lerato.kay.3 - 2012-07-21 09:20

    The DA must concentrate on local governance because they don't have an idea on foreign policy! Russia and China vetoed a security council resolution to extend a United Nations observer mission in Syria for 45 days, so SA's vote won't change anything either.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 09:37

      This has to do most with the sheeple mentality of supporting anything western. SA doesn't agree with the UK on how they think the Syrian crisis can be resolved. What is wrong with that? Should we agree with everything the west desires. Do these simpletons posting hear know why SA took the stance it took. Do they agree with the reasons supplied by SA, if not, why? Its much easier for them to go on the anti ANC/SA government bandwagon, because this requires little brain activity.

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 10:03

      Another of Fidel's silly little responses! A bit of anti Western HATRED and a few dashes of personal INSULTS, and ready to press the 'post comment' button. Well done, you must be sooo proud of yourself !!

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 10:17

      You'll keep exposing yourself as the emotional posting person you are when you keep trying to discredit me. Debate what I write and not what you want to refute.

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 11:14

      Like one cannot negotiate with a dictator, one can not debate with a radical !!!

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 11:20

      I think you should re visit your school master and ask him/her what the word "debate" means, and see if what you have been doing here fits their description.

      AnthonyfromAfrica - 2012-07-21 12:55

      I think you should team up with that Keith, You do the planning, and he will plant the bombs. Both of you, will get your "First Class Terrorist Certificate" on the completion of your first mission !!!

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 17:00

      Lerato like Fidel you are the beneficiary of other peoples fight bring you free speech and democracy yet you want those same rights denied to others.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 17:53

      Truly, Fidel does not know that he's actually supporting the oppression of Muslims by unelected dictators who want the right to vote for their leaders.

  • Ari - 2012-07-21 10:17

    SA must remain neutral. The world is being lied to about the actual events in Syria. While the mainstream media is going to great lengths to convince the world that events in Syria are the result of yet another 'people's revolution', the facts point clearly to yet another US government-sponsored bloody 'regime change'. Given that the US has been a de facto global empire for at least 60 years, with all of the power, infrastructure and influence that entails, how difficult do we think it would be for agents of the empire to manufacture a 'revolution' in any given country? The answer, surprisingly, is 'not so easily'. But it is doable, as long as the empire is willing to murder innocent civilians to create the impression of a brutal regime in need of removal. And the USA has never balked at murdering a few hundred, a few thousand, or even a few million civilians to ensure it gets its geo-political way, to the delight of psychopaths in power everywhere.

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 22:03

      People with principles take a stand! I stood against the Vietnam war and the second Gulf war. I supported Isreal when it was attacked by its neighbours, but am vehemently opposed their actions at present against the Palestinins and their theft of land and property in the West Bank (probably where Mugabe got the idea). Its called having principles, same as fighting against apartheid, refusing to be drafted into the military etc. Where the US needs to be opposed I have opposed it just as I opposed the apartheid government, and now oppose the corruption of the ANC. Its called having principles.

  • alon.fisher.752 - 2012-07-21 10:21

    Will never happen because we have become a Chinese lapdog, otherrwise something would have been done about Mugabe up North ages ago, in addition to allowing the Dalai Lama in. But what about violence in our own society/country why do our politicians insist on making more noises about events abroad(mind you Syria is horrendous and Assad is despicable) but are South African lives cheaper? Just food for thought.

  • Amanda - 2012-07-21 14:33

    And only yesterday 48000 Syrians fled into Lebanon. That is thanks to the China/Russian veto. Now Lebanon must sit with a massive refugee problem. Disgraceful.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 14:46

      And over a million Iraqis are in Syria, thanks to the US and her lackeys. Now Syria is sitting with a massive refugee problem. Disgraceful.

      gerhard.kress.3 - 2012-07-21 16:32

      One third of the population of Zim is in SA, thanks to who?

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 17:56

      Fidel's immature anti-West core belief blinds him to the fact that Jihadists have killed and maimed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's with their car bombs and suicide attacks, not the US. To him the US has done this. He distorts reality, rendering it delusional.

  • bill.hartley.7777 - 2012-07-21 15:38

    Shouldn't the ANC be backing the freedom fighters, huh Nelson? Oh yes, I forgot we are in bed with the Chinese, silly me.

  • riaan.brits.75 - 2012-07-21 18:38

    Fidel is absolutely correct - unfortunately some our fellow readers have been brainwashed for years in their churces by a doctrine that is US sponsored and biased against Russian and Chinese stances, despite the fact that Russia and China are now taking the moral high ground on the Syrian matter by not supporting armed terrorists. The SA government has acted appropriately and would have acted even more so had they also vetoed the resolution.

  • riaan.brits.75 - 2012-07-21 18:42

    The true sponsors of terror in this instance are Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the evil NATO click. One can only hope that Russia, China and Iran will play a more active part to impliment the Annan peace plan - Hilary Clinton is the biggest most corrupt gangster and directly responsible for the loss of lives of innocent people, not Assad as the corporate media is attempting to portray. The DA is just trying to suck up to NATO, what losers..

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 18:53

      Talk about being out of touch with what is really going on. You're supporting the neo-Communist Russian and Chinese regimes, and the illegitimate, terrorist-funding, woman-stoning Iranian regime. What are you thinking man.

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-21 18:54

      Only 12 of the 166 countries on Earth believe Assad is a legitimate leader. Guess who those 12 are.

      fidel.mgoqi - 2012-07-21 20:15

      Hear hear Riaan!!

      kevin.watson.7906 - 2012-07-21 22:09

      Do you watch the news reels on Syria? Oh I know you think the world is flat and the US never put a man on the Moon, just filmed something in one of their deserts. Be kind to Hilary she is getting old, her husband cheats on her, and if her boss loses the next election she will be out of a job.

      ari.potah - 2012-07-22 09:03

      @Fredfraser - So what if 12 out of 166 countries believe the US propaganda - the question is: What do the Syrians believe? As in Libya, most support their leader. The "rebels" in both situations are US/Israeli mercenaries. Watch who gets to take control of Syria when it finally falls - it will be the same old alliance lackeys the US has deployed everywhere. Do some homework, man. Read more than main stream media. Open your mind . . .

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-23 02:59

      Ari, you're kidding, right? Virtually the whole world now is under a US spell. You've taken delusion (and stubborness) to a new level.

  • justin.holland.50596 - 2012-07-22 10:18

    There you have it. The DA is just another US imperialist lap dog............

      fred.fraser.12 - 2012-07-23 03:00

      Such a silly and disrespectful notion

  • Darra - 2012-07-22 11:47

    C'mon! It's simple! The new 'baas' has a stance that favours the current regime and neutralises UN proposals that seek solutions to the decimation of that country. And the anc must follow their new Baas! They did it with the Dalai Lama and Burma. Why should'nt they do so with Abbass? Hey anc, your boss has got an honorary degree for achieving ...... WHAT has he achieved? He has achieved nothing except employing the wrong people firing them after vacillating for ages, and employing another! .... and ...What he has done is replaced one Colonialist with another, simply by toeing the Chinese line. How could he possibly vote against the Chinese Baas. HAU!

  • price.moyo.9 - 2012-07-22 22:30

    Riaan, just wondet how many mini heart attack u had whn the gadaffi, sadam n bin laden were got rid of. How is Asad any better than mugabe or gadaff? U say clinton is a ganster, no sir u r the most notorious ganster, u love terror.

  • joseph.motloung.3 - 2012-07-23 23:39

    Oh but the DA is like a tribe of complete idiot "The dream of a negotiated settlement will never be realised without more decisive initial steps to de-escalate the violence," The Assad regime has said they are willing to enter into dialogue with the Al-qaeda infiltrated Syrian National Council but their handlers the west refuse to entertain the idea. Its easy to see why they take this kind of position because they are remnants of the racist National Party which brought apartheid

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