Info bill: Who voted how

2011-11-22 22:34

Cape Town - The names of who voted for and against the contentious protection of state information bill in the National Assembly will emerge on Wednesday.

Opposition parties called for a division before the bill was approved.

The Assembly's electronic voting mechanism records the way individual MPs vote and this is published in the official "minutes of proceedings in the National Assembly" - usually the following day.

However, it can be almost safely assumed that the 229 votes in favour of the bill all came from ANC MPs, and the 107 votes recorded against the measure from the combined opposition.

There were two abstentions, also most likely from the opposition benches.

As the ANC has 264 MPs in the Assembly, this means that 35 were absent for the vote, despite ANC caucus spokesperson Moloto Mothapo reportedly having said Tuesday's session was compulsory.

The Democratic Alliance has 67 MPs, the Congress of the People 30, the Inkatha Freedom Party 18, and the Independent Democrats, the United Democratic Movement, and Freedom Front Plus four each.

The African Christian Democratic Party and United Christian Democratic Party have three each.

The Pan Africanist Congress, the Azanian People's Organisation, the Minority Front, and African People's Convention have one MP each.

The combined opposition numbers 136 MPs, meaning 27 were not present in the House for the vote.

  • Shoe - 2011-11-22 22:50

    Mhmmm makes you wonder, doesn't it?

      Lyndatjie - 2011-11-23 06:46

      Yes it does! The most interesting being that they KNOW that their vote will be gazetted which makes it an UNFAIR voting system! Isn't it supposed to be a "secret" vote? Would you OPENLY vote against what your cronies want if you knew your choice will be made public and can be seen by all? The answer is NO... so it is a VERY unfair voting system!

      Len - 2011-11-23 07:57

      Like it or not, an MP has no constitutional standing on their own outside their party. Every MP is invited by the party, and the party can fire or hire anyone they deem fit. South Africans vote for a party and it is that party that nominates people to represent its numerical representation. These individuals have no constiuncies and cannot be held responsible personally if the ANC does something wrong. The ANC received a mandate from the electorate and if the electorate believes that the ANC no longer deserves their vote, they will not vote for the ANC. South Africa needs a constituency based system, where the people that voted for an MP can put pressure on him, and if he votes against their wishes, they can kick him out. A secret ballot in a proportional representative system is not ideal as a non-elected person should not have a right to represent their personal interest against the wishes of the voter

      Jaba - 2011-11-23 08:10

      This is the only logical way to look at this blatant anti-democratic bill: 229 thieves who want to hide everything they have, are and going to steel from the people - Madiba would puke if he was ever told about the sad U-Turn this country is busy taking.

      Marius - 2011-11-23 09:21

      @Lyndatjie. No secret voting in parliament. Pryor to the electronic system parliamentarians voted by raising their hands and being counted physically.

      CyberDog - 2011-11-23 10:08

      @Lyndatjie, damn, you seriously don't have a clue do you. Their vote is supposed to be a public representation of the people, not some secretive presidential vote. These are supposed to be the people representing you, they are accountable to YOU and they are there from YOU paying taxes for them to be there. And they are there to do what YOU tell them to. The ANC is a complete failure of democracy. They do not represent the people [YOU], they only represent themselves, and the uneducated, who cannot even spell information bill, let alone understand the implications of this vote... And the anc is abusing this for all its worth. Another sad day for South Africa ...

      MoAfrika - 2011-11-23 10:40

      What happened to them being the ruling party? it goes without saying that what they want is final ;) how is the system unfair? majority rules, lets count the votes again...majority will remain to rule, be it the ANC or the CNA.

      nicolene.scheepers3 - 2011-11-23 15:21

      "Press freedom will never be under threat in South Africa as long as the ANC is the majority party". Nelson Mandela 19/11/1997

      John - 2011-11-23 21:57

      It appears that some oppositions are not true oppositions after all...false decoys are all the rage in STALINIST political games by the ANC, Association of National Criminals, Abortion Murder Genocide.

  • Mark - 2011-11-22 22:57

    Good. We'll be able to see who supports democracy, and who are just bladdy agents, with a secrecy tendency!

      Len - 2011-11-23 07:58

      The ANC voted for the bill, and that is what matters in the election. Individuals come and go and can be replaced in a flash. It is the party that is in the ballot box.

      Sean - 2011-11-23 08:25

      Len while you are correct, there is one key issue that all of us forget. The ANC are the ruling party, they are NOT the goverment. The Goverment is supposed to do what is best for the COUNTRY and not the ruling party. Our goverment apparently forgot this. All the current goverment does is look after the ruling party.

      TedHaller69 - 2011-11-23 08:44

      Great comment Sean - Len we await your response!

      yolie.Landa - 2011-11-23 08:47

      It is said that all the ANC MPs have voted for and everyone else against. For me I dont need names coz I know the MPs and which party they belong to

      Len - 2011-11-23 08:51

      @Sean. Parliament is responsible for legislation, while government is expected to operate within such confines. The ANC has a right to form a government on the basis of their numerical advantage. In essence, Parliament votes for the President and that generally is the leader of a party. The President is then given a task by Parliament to form a Government. The President then will appoint his cabinet which will be responsible for governing. Because the ANC has the majority, chances are that government policies will largely reflect the mandate they received from the voter. While government acts in the interest of everyone, they would have most likely articulated a position that got them the most votes, and therefore are expected to be biased towards their own policy position. Should the government not meet the expectation of those that votes for them, they are most likely to be replaced through elections where they lose the right to appoint a government in parliament. So, I disagree that government is not party aligned

      Juicecard - 2011-11-23 09:39

      Thx Len,i also thought it absurd not to align gvt and the ruling party since the president is from a party and has to push for the mandate of those who put him into power who are ironically the ruling party.

  • antoinette.jordaan - 2011-11-22 23:06

    Name and Shame!

  • Alva - 2011-11-22 23:20

    Who were the 27 opposition MPs who were not present to vote? Shame them! How is the public protector going to protect the rights of the public without whistleblowers? Is this bill about neutralising that office? How to wipe out the public protector. Don't allocate her office a budget and jail the whistleblowers! ANC's problem solved.

      Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 09:56

      read the Bill instead of making stupid comments or asking stupid questions. what your saying ha nothing to do with the Bill

      Alva - 2011-11-23 11:50

      @Never-apologize. You are too blind to see the truth!

  • Richard - 2011-11-23 00:04

    I don't agree that who votes for who should be published. It exposes individuals to pressures that affect their personal opinions based on their political futures etc. It also exposes individuals to temptation and corruption. keep it secret just like a vote should be!

      Richard - 2011-11-23 00:06

      If votes were never exposed i bet a lot of ANC members wouldn't of voted for the bill. But because they know their names will be shown and that they have been threatened by their own party they have no choice but to vote along party lines. Creates undue bias!

      Ronald - 2011-11-23 00:37

      At least the hungry, newly oppressed, service delivery awaiting, penniless and kept in the dark mobs will know who the spineless politicians are that's to blame for their future predicament and can approach said politicians for retribution, African style. If a politician is not prepared to vote his/her conscience he/she does not deserve a seat in parliament, no matter what the pressure.

      Grant - 2011-11-23 07:06

      Richard democracy is a system whereby the majority elect a minority to represent them in a collective of the elected who design,craft and apporove the laws of the land . Having a transparent voting system is thus the cornerstone of accountability to the majority , It is the only way you can see that the person or political party you voted for is acting in your interest .This is not the backstabbing office or a vote on closing hours of the bar at your cricket club bud . And yes when elected into office you need to demonstrate and act with accountability foremost . Do you understand now?Secrets are excatly what we are trying to stop here.

      Len - 2011-11-23 08:12

      Issue here is the standing of the MPs. They were not voted into parliament, they were appointed. They have no basis to differ with the ANC. If they did, they would be replaced by someone willing to toe the party line. We need a constituency based system soon

      Richard - 2011-11-23 09:32

      @grant, Point well made. My concern then comes that will the people who voted the individuals in ever find out? The names my be published but a poor illiterate individual will never know his vote went against his freedom and so no change will come. So i agree, but then there must be in place where each MP must report back to his constituency as to why they voted the way they did as an individual. That would create some accountability.

      Angela - 2011-11-23 09:35

      I think it's very important we know which side of the fence our MP's are sitting on. If not, the public may as well be represented by the guy on the corner! 'Don't know anything about you, but hey let's vote you in' ???

  • mbulelo.mapukata - 2011-11-23 00:59

    those who voted the current corrupt anc officals in power must have regret the fact that they voted for self centered holigans

      Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 10:10

      You dont know what you are talking about, they were sent there to do just that, garner enough votes in a democratic election and perhaps you will send those that you will conveniently think they are not hooligans and self centred

      Tyson - 2011-11-23 10:11

      no they do not regret any thing because they have read the Protection of State Information Bill and soon to be law.

  • Secrecy - 2011-11-23 01:04

    Get all the information and help create a central place to fight the Bill -

  • Gargmel - 2011-11-23 02:51

    Those who voted in favor of the bill is corrupt. Finished and klaar.

  • raymond.kok3 - 2011-11-23 05:56

    well i think that the dumb ones are padding themselves on the the back and probally had some chivas regal last night , bercause in their own little peanut corrupt brains they are save from public scrutiny now because even their affairs can become state secrets now. 'oh you cannot tell you where the mistress live just now someone will wait for the minister when he makes a booty call'. i really pray that there will be a strong opposition one day soon, i am sick of the african national corruptors

      Tyson - 2011-11-23 10:14

      The peanut brains have read the Protection of State Information bill, so should you air/balloon brain.

  • dominique.thom - 2011-11-23 06:01

    stuff like this MUST be settled be a referendum! But then again most of the registered voters are uneducated and are like blind sheep doing exactly what they are told, so even that wont help... The constitutional court will overturn this

  • sjaanbuchel - 2011-11-23 06:34

    Cry the beloved country! The millionaire-freedom-fighting goverment needs a law to cover their tracts. Law CYA-1 of 2011 will protect the following in the ANC: maladministraters, corrupt goverment officials, shady goverment deals,insider trading, nepotism, moneywasters etc. all in the name of Security of the Country? Quo Vadis SA- Zim?

  • Irene - 2011-11-23 07:14

    The ANC Government have just given the citizens of this country the middle finger. So Ihop the next time elections come around, the citizens of this country give them both middle fingers.

      Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 10:13

      which citezens, you and your minority interests? they are acting for the majority interests.. so get over yourself

  • Chaapo - 2011-11-23 07:18

    This is not a Bill which has to do with the safety of the country but which curtails the right of citizens to know what their representatives do and whose interests they serve when in parliament. Given the evidence so far, the corrupt will use this to stop the right of people to know about their nefarious deeds. Why is there such hullabaloo about publishing who voted for what when it is standard practice in democracies? What are they afraid of? It is a process meant to keep representatives accountable to their constituent members who sent them to parliament in the first place. If there is a democracy by deference, which allows the MPs to vote on behalf of the people as a collective, then the very people they represent have every right to know the values and whose interests they are articulating in the manner of their voting. In other parliaments this is done each time votes are cast and is not high secret. The guilty, liars and incompetents have reason to fear but those who do their jobs and become a true voice for the communities they serve have no fear.

  • PhilipV - 2011-11-23 07:33

    No no no .. the vote can now be classified as state information and not be published ... see they rigged it.

  • Fredster69 - 2011-11-23 07:39

    Spineless fence sitters

  • gerard.currin - 2011-11-23 07:56

    The whole approach to the introduction of the bill was carefully planned. Lack of transparency in the process of public consultation. ANC calling it the replacement of the P.W.Botha law (play on emotions). Insisting on all MP's to follow the party line. Opening the votes to the public to ensure the party line was followed. This is clearly a Government running scared. Time for a Million Man march to protest. If not, we are in for a very rough ride. Now all local councils can hide corruption under the guise of confidentiality. Shame on South Africa, brought about by a Government that cares less for honesty, justice and its people than it does for their own corrupt self interest.

  • Ian - 2011-11-23 08:33

    sounds more like they want steal as much as possible, they know the hague awaits there presence, hopefully the masses will wake up and vote them out, then you will see a chicken run

  • Ian - 2011-11-23 08:35

    we know who voted, and how....everyone who voted in favour....GUILTY!

      Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 10:15

      guilty of what? for exercising their democratic right and manadate, come on get over your high horse

  • Primrose - 2011-11-23 08:51

    you know the whole government is scared cause the is 1 person who can bring Zuma down its Julius as his the 1 who put him into power, now Julius knows a lot and if he wants he can bring out all the worms out of th can as revenge. So now they shutting up the media cause we will know all the corruption they being doing.

      rutger.boshoff - 2011-11-23 11:45

      Julias is the most corrupt of all. How do you think he got is 500milion rand fortune without doing a days honest work? Do you even grasp the definition of corruption?

  • David - 2011-11-23 08:56

    There is nothing unfair about the voting system as we as owners of the country(taxpayers) have a right to know how and who votes what in parliament each vote by all must be shown to us so that we can see you are the a#$%holes are that are prepared to try and protect their corrupt past ans future to gain unlawfully from us the bastards should be drawn and quatered

      Esperanca - 2011-11-23 09:28

      You are right, the votes should not be a secret, why should they? If you strongly believe in something you will support it, so you should not be afraid to make your views known.

  • Grahame - 2011-11-23 09:01

    To the Anc HIDE what u want to, the truth will still come out !!! and your people will turn against you.

  • Grahame - 2011-11-23 09:03

    to the ANC hide what you want!!! The truth will still come out sooner or later, then your followers will understand how you are steeling from them.

  • Esperanca - 2011-11-23 09:10

    I ask because I really don't know, how far different is this bill to what the UK & USA in terms of their secrecy act? One usually comes across stuff that is "classified".

      aardvarkie - 2011-11-23 12:13

      Not too far off from those, but look where it's got them - Occupy WallStreet as an example, US and European debt, illegal world bank system... it's all poo.

  • robbie.crouch - 2011-11-23 09:14

    I bet some wish the bill was already in effect. I also bet that parliamentary sessions on controversial matters will also be declared secret once the bill is signed!

  • Gail - 2011-11-23 09:31

    How ironic - no secret voting because then the prez won't know who is getting the long knife out. But let's have secrecy when it comes to the general voting public. After all, they only pay for all the %^*()£" going on.

  • Sam - 2011-11-23 09:41

    The ANC is really doing their best to loose voters. I am granting their wish.

      Perfume - 2011-11-23 09:55

      The wish was granted yesterday.

  • Angela - 2011-11-23 09:44

    Funny how this bill got passed just before election time!

      Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 10:17

      Which elections? you are probably in dream land?

  • Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 09:49

    @Saun, that's nonsense..that is where many of you get it wrong. The ANC is the ruling party in Govt, whagt it means is that the majority of this country gave them a majority mandate so they have to look after the interest of the Majority.

      Martin - 2011-11-23 12:37

      so their intention to legislate this bill was put out there to the general public as part of the ANC mandate prior to the national election? I sincerely doubt it

      Omrisho - 2011-11-23 12:44

      and they are doing an absolutely brilliant job of looking after the majority??? pffft

  • NrGx - 2011-11-23 09:55

    wouldn't the fact that the ANC MP's were "forced" to pass the bill, make it unconstitutional? Was it not supposed to be a "secret" vote? It seems, regardless of their views on this matter, they were bulldozed with threats and god knows what else to support this bill? Surely this is a case in argument that it was not a democratic vote?

      Never-apologize - 2011-11-23 10:20

      surely the democratic processes and systems of this country have long passed you, they are not there to represent their views/feeling/opinions but the party in parliament, for heavens sake we are not in America here.

  • Sue - 2011-11-23 10:18

    I did not vote for the ANC and do not agree with many of their policies ... does that mean I do not have to pay my taxes? Majority who voted for ANC do not pay taxes and therefore should not have a say in how the country is run. Those paying taxes should have the final vote on who gets to run the country and then prehaps things would run more effectively! What goes round comes round .... watch out ANC.

  • Keith - 2011-11-23 10:33

    @Len - you hit the nail on the head. The core problem in this country is the electoral system. It not only gives the ruling party too much power but it allows thugs to dominate the party list. The Youth League has the power to dominate the selection of the party list at election time and started to do this at the Polokwane conference. All they have to do is infiltrate and dominate the branches. It is going to lead to huge problems in the future and I don't think anyone is doing anything to change the system to save us from disaster. DA and other opposition parties please wake up to this severe and dangerous weakness in the system.

  • mnbain - 2011-11-23 10:51

    What happened to VUSI MABASO? Anyone know?

      Perfume - 2011-11-23 13:06

      Someone asked after him yesterday as well.

  • Samuel - 2011-11-23 10:55

    This is why Zuma approved the Armsdeal probe - he new the outcome wont be made public, and anay one revealing it will be jailed

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-23 11:05

    There is a perception amongst many black south africans that when a white person critiszes the ANC that is racist....This is a result of the memory of apartheid. How can we as whites make our fellow black south africans realise that 99% of us support a democratic south africa as it is..BUT THIS DOESNT MEAN WE CAN ACCEPT ALL THIS BLATANT CORRUPTION AND FRAUD... in fact our fellow black south africans are foolish nor to join us in this struggle to keep the government on the straight and narrow path... In fact those who support the ANC can be held responsible for the corruption until they vote these thieves out of power...

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-23 11:07

    There is a perception amongst many black south africans that when a white person critiszes the ANC that is racist....This is a result of the memory of apartheid. How can we as whites make our fellow black south africans realise that 99% of us support a democratic south africa as it is..BUT THIS DOESNT MEAN WE CAN ACCEPT ALL THIS BLATANT CORRUPTION AND FRAUD... in fact our fellow black south africans are foolish nor to join us in this struggle to keep the government on the straight and narrow path... In fact those who support the ANC can be held responsible for the corruption until they vote these thieves out of power...

      aardvarkie - 2011-11-23 12:16

      Well said! Both white and black people need to get over their race issues. I see this bill as a blatant attack on the people of South Africa.

  • Cheryl - 2011-11-23 11:22

    ''Press freedom will never be under threat in South Africa as long as the ANC is the majority party". Nelson Mandela 19/11/1997

  • Bruce - 2011-11-23 12:31

    Boss : "Where were you in between 1pm and 4pm today? and why are you drunk?" Government Official : "I have explained everything in this document.....unfortunately it's classified."

  • Kevin - 2011-11-23 12:56

    Disgusting forms of human life. The rest of the World will take note , won't invest and the anc can kiss any job creation goodbye. This clown government is already the laughing stock all over the World and is fast aligning itself to look exactly like disturbed Bob and Zim

  • Randomhero6661 - 2011-11-23 13:12

    honestly you think its wise to post names????

  • marlene.uys1 - 2011-11-23 13:19

    @MoAfrica, you think you so freaking cleaver and that the majority rules and thus fair, so in the apartheid era with their majority thus also made it fair of what the MP's decided on, right? Wrong! Just because you the ruling or majority party it doesn't make everything fair. We suppose to be a democratic country and what all that Madiba (ANC leader) worked for is going to the dogs! What all our Freedom Fighters work so hard for is being destroyed again and you approve of this? Don't you think South African citizens deserve to know the truth of what is going on in our country, government and what happens to our taxes as we pay for all the MP's salaries anyway? These ignorant, uneducated people that believe al they told really irritate me endlessly!

  • guy.goes1 - 2011-11-23 13:30

    This protection of info bill is just the start enabeling the ANC goverment to keep increasing amounts of control over the south african citizens. consider the fact that all cel phones are now registered, making it easy to listen to our private conversations. Fica laws have been enacted devulging every piece of info about your financial status. We have been finger printed ,photographed, identified,catagorised by race,sex, age, where we live and with whom. Next will be DNA samples retina scans and we all will wear an encoded chip under our skin. All this in the hands of whom? scary stuff .

  • Tyrone - 2011-11-23 14:03

    I say all those that voted for it need to be investigated for corruption as they obviously have something to hide.

  • Warren - 2011-11-23 15:03

    Will they be able to publish the names though ?

  • margaret.mead1 - 2011-11-23 16:03

    I appears only one ANC MP had the courage to abstain! She defied the instruction to vote in favour. She is expecting to be punished. Good for her. She is a Christian lady and felt she could not vote yes in good conscience. So if the party FORCES its members to Vote one way or the other, that means that they are not 'voting' at all. A vote is voluntary, based upon that person's beliefs. If you are forced to vote and threatened, that is a form of anarchy. Why are we not surprised?

  • pages:
  • 1