Nationalisation: Deliberate confusion?

2012-07-05 22:29

Johannesburg - The African National Congress' (ANC's) policy conference was billed as the final nail in the coffin for a drive to nationalise the country's mines.

Instead, the policy corpse appears to be alive and kicking.

While "blanket nationalisation" - a sweeping buyout that would cost the state, by its own reckoning, more than R1 trillion, or nearly an entire annual budget - and a windfall tax appear to be off the table, the week-long ANC talk-fest has left almost everything else up in the air.

Amid confusion about reports of more state mining firms, partial nationalisation and "strategic" minerals, Enoch Godongwana, the head of the ANC's economic transformation committee, took to the airwaves on Thursday to offer some clarity.

It didn't help.

"I do not know what kind of clarity people want," Godongwana, a big-hitter in ANC policy circles, told Talk Radio 702, adding that nationalisation "remains as a weapon for the ANC, as a tool, an instrument, as an option."

It was a far cry from Mineral Resources Minister Susan Shabangu telling an audience at a Johannesburg business school last month the issue would be "laid to rest" at the ANC's policy conference.

Since the meeting concluded on Friday, various ANC factions have come out to claim victory in their fight to screw more rent out the mines.

Business Day reported on Thursday that delegates from six of South Africa's nine provinces pushed for mines and firms in the steel and energy sectors to be taken over - to the delight of the ANC Youth League, the most vocal proponent of the idea.

The conference also endorsed the idea of "strategic nationalisation" if backed by the "balance of evidence" - whatever that may mean.


Predictably, business leaders are bemoaning the lack of clarity and blaming below-the-surface power struggles ahead of the Mangaung conference at the end of the year.

"We have already indicated our discomfort," said Sandile Zungu, general secretary of the Black Business Council, an influential lobby group.

"The ANC has to come out very clearly, unambiguously and frankly, and say this is what the policy conference position was on nationalisation."

However, the possibility remains that keeping everybody guessing - including ANC rank and file - is actually part of the plan for the party's top brass as it moves towards the December internal vote and a general election in 2014.

"In terms of the definition, we don't want to have a situation where we announce up front what strategic minerals are because the notion of strategic minerals is a dynamic one," Godongwana said, suggesting the obfuscation is deliberate.

Last week's conference is also not the first time the party has chewed over the issue ad nauseam - to the concern of mining investors - and then done precisely nothing.

Two years ago, at a policy conference in Durban, it was looking at "strategic sectors" for nationalisation. Three years before that, it had its eye on "strategic assets".

"It's pure populist rhetoric," said Peter Major, a mining analyst at Cadiz Corporate Solutions in Cape Town.

"They'll study it to death until the election comes, but they never really implement anything they say. They're not going to say anything to lose votes, but they're also not going to do anything to lose money."

  • gavin.simpson.0 - 2012-07-05 22:41

    If only these idiots were educated enough to see what they are doing.... or not doing.

      fred.murgatroyd - 2012-07-05 22:44

      If there is one thing that is true, it is that you cannot trust the ANC at all, ever !!!!

      Christelle - 2012-07-05 22:48

      The are keeping a backdoor open. Knowing they are going to get an butt-whipping about this issue! - 2012-07-06 00:01

      is there something these bastards do that is not confusing, i mean really?

      sean.lambie.3 - 2012-07-06 02:21

      @Gavin - They will not and can not !!It is very primitive mentality !!

      gary.scande - 2012-07-06 06:15

      They are using our country as a tool to fuel their own greed, or worse still, something to play with to ease their boredom, or one step further, a weapon to take revenge for the past. This country belongs to all of us, not just the elite few, and it pains to see it being abused this way.

      Walter - 2012-07-06 06:20

      As Major says, and it's all put into a nutshell, "Populist Rhetoric!" It's purely a means to impressing and persuading the uninformed masses to, once again, vote for the ANC; nationalisation won't create jobs. The mine worker, farm labourer, bank clerk and sweeper, will eventually realise that nationalisation will jeopardise their employment. The unemployed will remain unemployed, crime will escalate even further. They must look beyond and vote for a body who will make a change to their lives. VOTE DA!

      poloyatonkim - 2012-07-06 08:25

      Malema's ideas lives on, with or without him... He is a legend.

      patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-07-06 08:38

      @polowhatever It really takes very little to impress you.

      mary.hinge.9066 - 2012-07-07 00:09

      One cannot educate them, no matter how hard one tries. There are no so blind as those that will not see.

  • kolobe.mzansi.9 - 2012-07-05 22:46

    malema rules from the grave

      loading123 - 2012-07-06 07:45

      Yeah, he rules over all the idiots!

      Gavin - 2012-07-06 08:23 your village missing its idiot ?

      poloyatonkim - 2012-07-06 08:26

      I agree Kolobe..

      martin.britchford.5 - 2012-07-06 09:27

      unfortunately i still think the youth league does take its orders from malema, they did say that he is their leader regardless of expulsion

  • Renard De Souza - 2012-07-05 22:47

    Give it all to them. So they can eff it up like all other African countries thus far

      poloyatonkim - 2012-07-06 08:32

      Why do you care, its our land and our minerals anyway...

      1amAlan - 2012-07-06 13:42

      poloyatonkim, please show me the diamond with your name on it.

  • nettie.potgieter.5 - 2012-07-05 22:55

    Bulls***t buffel brains so anybody that belive what the ANC say is a fool! Do not trust them!!!

      Cassandra Eileen Olivier - 2012-07-05 23:11

      Quite right Nettie

  • ditoare.gypsy - 2012-07-05 22:56

    I would like to see the whole year budget buying mines, the government change the system, eployees going on strike, mines making no profit and SOUTH AFRICA become TOAST

  • bernpm - 2012-07-05 23:00

    The ANC keeps many balls in the air without telling us who are kicking them. Result...stagnation in business plans, preparations and implementations till after next elections. Are we waiting for how much money the Chinese, Indians or Brazilians can bring to the table?? So much for economic growth

  • ramohapelwa.berries - 2012-07-05 23:21

    Susan's minister. Enoch ANC Head of Economic Committee. Who formulates policy, ANC/ govt?

  • carl.debeer.33 - 2012-07-05 23:29

    They all use these fancy words that not even their own supporters can understand. When the push comes to shove nobody wants to shove, 'cause they don't know how to!

  • carl.debeer.33 - 2012-07-05 23:42

    So South Africa don't worry it's a load of s$$t they have just admitted that they have made Arsoles of themselves without them even knowing it.

  • Robert - 2012-07-06 00:13

    Economic tyranny and thievery by sleuth - The ANC should forget the destructive creep and popular posturing it engages in to keep the elite in power. This method is an all too familiar and shamefully slow, demoralizing and painfully slow process affecting everyone in the long run - check out how Bob has done it over 30+ years - rather take the short cut, follow his lead, and just do a "quick Bob" on South Africa (he has the script down to fine art)- so we can all experience a swift destruction of our fine Nation and thereafter let those survive and are capable, pick up the pieces and get on with it - again!

  • Gerald Jordaan - 2012-07-06 00:43

    Die ANC is so deurmekaar soos KOTS IN 'N TUIMELDROOER !! Forgive them Father for they know not what they do!! Wake up you dumb f*cks...Nationalise = GOOD BYE FOREIGN INVESTMENT..hello FAMINE !! AL WAT DIE ANC IS IS 'N KLOMP F*KKEN BOKSLAGTERS!!

  • Ian - 2012-07-06 01:08

    love the pic, thats right chump rocks is all you will be eating with your natinolisation BS, but you are too thick to see it, what a bunch

  • peter.fraser.92754 - 2012-07-06 01:38

    The ANC will do ANYTHING, yes ANYTHING do win votes and deflect the real problem...their inability to govern. Sela.

  • Zama - 2012-07-06 03:02

    No confusion on this meter but time wasting. In the name of people power,I think South African community should vote for Nationalisation and they can because it is the future of this country. And that can help ANC to remain in Power.

      Simphiwe Msomi - 2012-07-06 04:40


      Gerda Malherbe - 2012-07-06 05:14

      Isn't it better to keep quiet about things you really know nothing about, you idiot Zama? If your leaders use the whole budget to nationalize the mines, there would be nothing left for them to steal and use for hotels, cars and iPads

      grace.andtruth.77 - 2012-07-06 06:05

      Zama you're as confused as your ANC. Lots of words and NO clue where or how!

      trevor.bush.9655 - 2012-07-06 06:25

      You definitely a result of the new education system, unable to think or formulate an intelligent statement. Are you even old enough to vote?

      abram.spamers - 2012-07-06 07:41

      It would take them a hundred years to make up the money they lose from nationalizing those mines. The state already gets a huge chunk of the profits on mining they just don't advertise that fact because then somebody might ask what they are doing with the money.

      Ian - 2012-07-06 07:45

      so the anc needs help do they, good to know that they are crapping their nappies

      chadjason.wilson - 2012-07-06 07:46

      Zama I think you are confused. I have a belief that black people percieve any critism of the ANC as an attempt by white people to prove blacks people's inability to rule.... and in some cases that may be true. But the greater majority of white people don't really care which race or racial mix governs South Africa, just as long as they implment policies and philosophies that will lead our country to success. We have a wonderfully unique and beautiful land with diversisty in all forms its greatest treasure. What we need is not for nationalization nor BBEEE nor AA nor any other unworkable acronym. What we need is for leader to stand up and say "in the words of another famous politican", ask not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your county". We need leaders that are able to create sustainable educational models that apply to the needs of our country. We need leadership that actively promotes and encourages entrepenuership . We need leadership that has the strength to tell people to stop bickering, get off their ass and start looking for opportunites. I have lived in Thailand for a year... the thai people have few government handouts and unemployment benefits.... they are forced to find a way and they do, from food stalls, to cut fruit, to motorbike taxis, yes and unforunately prostitution, but they find away. They have been hit by floods, but they get up and keep going... and this is just one example..... power exsists within the person....

      loading123 - 2012-07-06 07:47

      @Zama... an entire year's budget... 3 trillion rand... no more taxes from mines... country collapses... good idea? I recommend Omega 3 & 6 for increasing brain function

      hendrikvs - 2012-07-06 07:56

      Zama it is sad that so many of our fellow citizens do not have a mind of their own and the necessary common sense to realise how the ANC destroys the country day by day for all. They are brain washed by liars and thieves. Wake up and smell the coffee!!

  • Danwill Theys - 2012-07-06 05:29

    Nationalization can lead to the demise of this beautiful country of ours,the reason for me saying so is because.we expect these overseas businesses to buy the raw products from us,but we take our mines and everything is south African owned if they decide to not buy we will be worse than the poorest country and then a repeat of history by saying vote for us we will globalize our infrastructure by the same political party

  • piet.boerie - 2012-07-06 05:29

    As a "white" capitalist I believe in part nationalisation of our resources. Here is why: South Africa is the world's biggest producer of gold and platinum and one of the leading producers of base metals and coal, the diamond industry is the fourth-largest in the world, holding the world's largest reserves of gold, platinum-group metals and manganese ore. Resources are owned by the people. We should not be like Australia or America where the land owner only owns the top 30cm and mineral companies can tun up to your property and mine underneath your house without your consent and compensation. If you lock your gates you go to jail. Trillions and trillions of Rands have been made in South Africa yet 3/4 of the population lives in poverty? Where is the wealth that belongs to us? Who has these trillions and trillions of mullah? Not me and certainly not 99.99% of our population. But, here is the but, not the Allaince. They have shown themselves to be greedy corrupt and inept at bringing an kind of delivery of equality. THE ALLAINCE HAS BEEN IN POWER FOR 20 YEARS, TOTAL POLITICAL POWER, AND HAVE YET SHOWN TOTAL LACK OF ABILITY TO GOVERN OR CREATE EQUALITY.

      sean.brennan.39750 - 2012-07-06 06:10

      @ Piet. You have a good point there, however a mine is a hole in the ground. Calls to nationalize these holes in the ground is a joke. The expertise, plant and equipment to get the stuff out of the ground is what makes a hole in the ground a mine. True nationalization of mines will make it necessary to nationalize huge sectors of our economy. If the ANCYL idea of nationalization is for the state to just " manage" these mines.........well what is the point? Opportunity and jobs for a few mates ? Only have to look at Escom, SAA, ......... A joke.

      trevor.bush.9655 - 2012-07-06 06:29

      One majory flaw, it takes HUGES somes of capital to mine, capital which will come from the taxpayers and all mines under state or ANC control have failed, did we forget what happend last year with Zuma/Mandela family mining saga???? Also, you think the ANC care about the poor...give me a break, ever heard of BRIC...China needs resources quick and LOTS of it, they basically taking everything they can get their hands on and Africa is high on their farming list so, think again, ANC controls mines, China has no problem raping SA, all they do is payoff the ANC government which, they do VERY well, not China's fault, ANC corruption and greed.

      linda.visagie - 2012-07-06 06:45

      piet.boerie how can we get your message out there?? Nitwits like Zama & kolobe.mzansi need to hear it! Desperately! Before the next vote...

      sinjoku.sin - 2012-07-06 06:52

      @ Piet, just as a matter of interest where did you get your stats from regarding S.A being the biggest producer. I was led to believe that we are fighting for 4th place. Following is a table of the world’s 10 biggest gold-producing countries ranked by 2011 output, compiled by London-based metals-consulting company CRU. Figures are in metric tons. Country 2011 Output 2010 Output 1. China 380 341 2. Australia 272 260 3. U.S. 243 236 4. South Africa 221 209 5. Russia 205 197 6. Peru 156 163 7. Ghana 102 92 8. Canada 101 91 9. Indonesia 97 128 10. Mexico 82 72 World Production 2,789 2,638

      ratsaka.eugene - 2012-07-06 07:37

      @Piet, I find it extremely difficult to understand how we lost all these assets as a country. @Trevor, you are loosing it bro, what you are telling us is that private individuals own more capital than our government, if that's the case, then mines should be nationalised. The Aurora mine is owned by Zuma Khulubose and the other fat cat from the Mandela clan, not the government. With nationalisation, all those mines including the ones you talk about will be taken back to the nation. China is raping SA now, but every western nation have done so since 1652, they've brought their segregation styles, leading to a moral mess we find ourselves in today.

  • toofaan.monsoon - 2012-07-06 06:19

    Ever since I heard terms like \Economic Freedom in our lifetime\ and \African solutions to African problems\, I realised how good these guys are at talking a lot and saying nothing. Even attendees at the conference don't know what they were talking about. It's deliberate use of vague wording to retain votes while never making any commitment so that the priveliged few can continue coining it big time. At this, they're geniuses. If only the same genius could be applied to uplifting the country.

      trevor.bush.9655 - 2012-07-06 06:32

      Hit the nail on the head, ANC IS ABOUT SELF INRICHMENT! They don't give a stuff about the poor, we have a President buying a R2BILLION jet, for what?I bet he will distance himself from it and state it was a decision NOT made by him, by Parliament and he agrees, it's not good then come out smelling like roses feeding off crap. In short, from the President to local Municiple officials, the ANC is rotten.

  • Mark - 2012-07-06 06:24

    Two series to watch on youtube, if you have even a passing interest in the debate surrounding nationalisation: Free to Choose - Episode 2: The Tyranny of Control The Commanding Heights - Battle for the World Economy Episode 2:

      Mark - 2012-07-06 06:27

      And if you don't like being told what to do by old white men, try looking at these guys: The State Against Blacks

  • Dylan Dillboy Allison - 2012-07-06 06:27

    I shudder to think how quickly SA would follow on the footsteps of a certain next door neighbor who felt that nationalization was the way to go to remain in power, and this from a country that used to have 90% literacy and numeracy only to dispose of that colonialist influence in favor of promising the world to voters and delivering absolutely nothing in a decade! Picture SA by 2024 on the back of nationalization policies... Just look next door for that answer. And surely China, Iran, Korea and other BRIC parties will be sure to dig deep in their excess cash surplusses to bail the government of 2024 out... Frightening thoughts!!

  • Michael Kleber - 2012-07-06 06:34

    the only reason that certain people are wanting nationalisation is that they think they are going to benefit from it , but the truth is that companies nationalised would eventually close down and new companies will not open for obvious reasons , there are businesses currently going out of business why does the govt not nationalise those and keep people employed .

  • strauss.steven - 2012-07-06 06:42

    Die mense soek nie plase en myne nie- hulle soek werk en basiese dienste. Hulle wil ook 'n toilet hê waar hul rustig kan sit en hul besigheid doen en nie so oor die oop veld hardloop met die rol toiletpapier op 'n koue winter oggend en in 'n hokkie gaan sit. Hulle soek nie 'n plaas wat hulle in elk geval nie die kennis het om te bedryf nie- hulle soek 'n werk dat hulle vir hul kinders kan kos koop in die aand. Help nie die staat besit die myne en steel die geld wat mense moet betaal nie.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-06 08:18

      Dis reg. Dis die ANC Jeug leiers wat plase en myne soek.

  • vivian.harris.73 - 2012-07-06 06:43

    I want them to go ahead with this plan. Gonna lmao when these idiots start fighting for their share that they thought they would get....

  • ktheron2 - 2012-07-06 07:04

    It's time the US and Europe stop pouring investment capital and aid into Africa. They owe Africa nothing. Shut the door on Africa.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-06 08:03

      The US and Europe poured R6billion in investment just last year in SA alone ~Radio 702 reported yesterday. Investors are not philanthropists as you seem to think. They put their money where it will yield maximum profits for them, regardless of how bad the governing regime could be. Who are you again to instruct the US and European investors where to invest their money? Now go on and click “not like” as if that's going to change the facts

      moko.brian - 2012-07-06 09:33

      Thats why we are planning on driving u (Theron) to the sea where you'll enjoy your European moola.

      jenny.webbe - 2012-07-06 11:17

      Hi there fannie. The bad news is that kids are unemployed and do commit crime and it IS a dog eat dog world. All this talk of nationalisation etc, has already cut investment and will cut it month by month, so that in the long run, as you predict, we will all be starving.

  • - 2012-07-06 07:30

    If they nationalise the mines = 2nd brain drain. What's next give 51% of my business to an anc member, that'll be the frosrt Friday. I will emigrate to greener pastures = more unemployment. But make no mistake I don't want to leave our beutiful country, but the anc woun't be happy until they have destroyed our economy

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-06 08:09

      Well~stated Chris. The ANC is on the ropes. For all intents and purposes, they have long ditched the Freedom Charter which advocated such archaic ideas as nationalisation. However, the slogans still remain because that is how they keep their votes ~ keep the gullible under-educated “masses” hoping. But even the “masses” have started to smell the corruption

      greg.quinn.353 - 2012-07-06 08:16

      Good points Chris. My concern though is the ANC has been tasked to do all this on purpose and by design. There are higher agendas than this why all the other African countries have gone to crap.

  • Allan - 2012-07-06 08:01

    Minerals lying under the ground for centuries are worthless. It takes a process of mining to extract these minerals and turn them into a format in which they can be used and only at this point are they worth something. So where is the value add and who does this belong to? To the PEOPLE? I don't think so. Nationalise the mines and nothing will be mined in a very short period as well as zero future mines. Who will be the future beneficiaries? Its like looking at the sea, water every where but not a drop to drink - minerals every where but not an ounce to sell.

      greg.quinn.353 - 2012-07-06 08:15

      I think the Aurora mines is a good example of what will happen.

  • sizwe.bwana - 2012-07-06 08:02

    Nationalization means more opportunity for corruption. Want a share of the pie? Just join the ANC. If you can't beat them then join them. Infiltrate them from inside and take over. It can't be hard, they're a pretty lame bunch anyway. All you need to do is learn to sing, dance and march. Oh I forgot you also need to know how to Demand.

      luvo.luvos - 2012-07-06 08:15

      Oh dude, your white masters whose arses you are trying to lick must be very proud of you. Well done hey!!

      hendrikvs - 2012-07-06 08:23

      Sizwe - LMAO for the first reply on your comment. The poor people, not having a mind of their own and still believing it is a black-white issue. Shows you why they still vote ANC. They'll starve while still voting for a party that is busy shutting down SA's economy.

      Sharon - 2012-07-06 08:44

      looks like anc is a branch of ifp, its now controlled by the zulu nation

      jenny.webbe - 2012-07-06 11:23

      Yes Sizwe - take heed of luvo.luvos who clearly doesn't support any kind of thought unless it agrees with his own viewpoint. He doesn't bother to look ahead at consequences for himself, his family and the country and resorts to insults when anyone has a different and clearer viewpoint that doesn't agree with him. Hopefully he won't learn the hard way as there are many other S Africans who see the disaster that nationalization will bring to us all.

  • greg.quinn.353 - 2012-07-06 08:14

    I have yet to hear from one of these idiots how exactly nationalisation is going to help the poor. Instead of focusing on service delivery and education in their conference, they focus on issues that will provide them political fame. Bunch of self serving idiots.

      jenny.webbe - 2012-07-06 11:26

      Don't hold your breath greg - those idiots have no idea how anything will work, they just shout out whatever nonsense they hear and latch onto it. The thought of getting anything for free is what drives them onwards noisier and more demanding than ever, even though they have no clue as to how or even why.

  • Gavin - 2012-07-06 08:21

    this like one of those situations when you say - hey I don't want this, but your nipples are telling a very different story.

  • shaun.bezuidenhout.52 - 2012-07-06 08:22

    Ummm, I don't think the poor or the tax payers can afford to bail out another state entity after SAA, eskom, SANRAL and telkom have eaten into cash that could of been used for say, education, captial expenditure (drive the econoy) or even health services. #Justaying

  • eric.martinsich - 2012-07-06 08:24

    The oil rich countries nationalised their oil from the super powers. Iran nationalised oil and Britian was peed off. They lost their court case. World wide nationalisation has taken place so why not in South Africa. Why should the big boys be raping our country of our worldly goods and keep our people poor.

      stevie0064 - 2012-07-06 09:24

      So when all of Zim's formerly nationalised copper mines are now owned and operated by China, who is selling out whom, I wonder...

  • Gavin - 2012-07-06 08:25

    SA was nationalised by the ANC in the 90's and all they've done is let it rot away..

      colourblind.rsa - 2012-07-06 10:31

      That is not that case, why does the non- Black South African still prosper in this country today? It is a fact that the ANC could have easily created a society where the non- Black community was completey diregarded like in the prevoius era but this was not and still is not the case. Lets not make rash comments that directly oppose the realities of today. Yes, a white South African may be at the bottom of the economic preference food chain (If I may call it that) due to BEE policies but they still are very much a part of the chain and have many opportunities in this country.

  • kgalalelo.malesele - 2012-07-06 08:27

    You all tried to silence Julius Malema when he spoke about such issues now who's fooling who. Eat your heart out u idiots nationalization has many many more years to rock until its physically done

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-06 08:34

      Julius Malema and his buddies Cassel and them “nationalised” the Limpopo Provincial administration and brought it to its knees within a few years. You must be an idiot to think that will be allowed for the mines and other ”strategic” whatevers. It`s all political speak to keep you and other gullible ANC sheep interested and voting for the ANC in the hope that one day you will have shares in companies you hardly know how they are run. Wake up mosha!

  • wisani.mathonsi1 - 2012-07-06 08:28

    We going ahead with nationalisation, whether some like it or not, President Malema told them that its going to be a policy, they thought he was mad. Now watch as we roll out a suitable model, a model more like that being used by venezuela.

      themba.thwala.98 - 2012-07-06 09:43

      Dude, please leave the “used condom” alone

      jenny.webbe - 2012-07-06 11:30

      wisani you have very firm views indeed. Please read up on what has happened in Venezuela since nationalisation. Not pleasant, I warn you.

  • kgalalelo.malesele - 2012-07-06 08:32

    What I always find intriguing or rather confusing and frustrating is that we always listen to some idiots telling us it's gona cost the country so much, I say try the untested and let's see. Like the other day some guy was saying the Boeing 777-200 supposed to be bought for Zuma is gona cost billions to maintain I mean really do we look or smell like idiots. Stop lying about the costs because u end up looking like ANC who think politics are inheritance supposed to be passed from father to son to daughter

      stevie0064 - 2012-07-06 09:09

      Nationalisation is not an untested theory. It has failed at every turn. In order to win over the sceptics (who rightly suspect that this issue has not been thought out correctly), specifics need to be openly provided to show that an understanding exists of the failings of previous implementations and how these are to be rectified. In this respect, the ruling party has so far peddled only veiled rhetoric, vague promises, and contradictory 'facts'. If you want to boldly "try the untested", make sure the result will not leave everyone hungry, powerless, and destitute. If it does, make sure you blame only yourself for your mistakes.

  • eyesears.handsfeet - 2012-07-06 08:34

    Just another way to take land without really paying for it under the wing of "Transformation", makes no difference whether it's farms or mines. Land is land. With transformation they are trying to pay less than what the land is worth for where in actual fact it is an economical move which is going to have the owner of the land get less irrespective of the source. So you can bet ya it's going to happen, just in a camouflaged way under another name of "transformation" as they are trying to BS the people of SA with "fancy", "said" and "unsaid" words. It's another way of forcing the people to "sell" for lower so that it can "look" legitimate to work around the problem of willing buyer, willing seller solution. Same old, same old!

  • stevie0064 - 2012-07-06 08:54

    Certain political systems require a "necessary deception" to keep functioning. Communism is most noted for it because that is where this deception is used to remove all freedoms. Permanently. Democracy, and especially a multi-party democracy, also requires a similar deception of to work in the modern era although not quite as pernicious. The deception itself is fairly simple: the people must believe they have some kind of power over their destiny, where in reality they have none. Poor education leaves the deception laughably easy to create through propaganda and empty rhetoric.

  • lungile.ndyibithi - 2012-07-06 08:55

    Nationalisation is the future whether ppl try to negate it ANC will implement. Whites have had their pie and now are always tryin to scare us abt foreign investors. We dnt need foreign investors who will nt assist us in job creation. It is unfortunate that our leaders took time to realise a need to change laws that economically suppress us. It is nt only mines bt key sectors that need nationalisation.

      stevie0064 - 2012-07-06 09:12

      Please define what you understand Freedom to mean. Thank you.

      jenny.webbe - 2012-07-06 11:34

      No-one is trying to scare you. You don't have to look far to see what withdrawal of investment does to a country. Zimbabwe for example. Yes, we do need foreign investors who bring money and jobs into the country.Please tell us exactly how you see nationalization helping you as an individual (or any one of us average citizens who are not part of the smash and grab political elite).

  • vandeventer.sarel - 2012-07-06 09:46

    Hahahahaha. And u still get some idiots believing they wil own mines. Your anc cant even deliver textbooks to schools but they want to run the mines. Wake up u stupid bastards

      colourblind.rsa - 2012-07-06 12:10

      Mpumelelo, I get your frustration but your response is equally low levelled bro.

      MotoMalamu - 2012-07-06 12:46

      The ANC,formulate its policy which becomes gov policy through their majority in parliament. he

      MotoMalamu - 2012-07-06 12:48

      But who is biggest investors in all BRICS block?

  • colourblind.rsa - 2012-07-06 10:04

    I think its important to remember that complaining equates to nothing. I truly doubt that our government will expose themselves to international embarrasement and therefore lets have some faith. Yes, our government has failed us as a nation in many respects but they have also made us proud in many respects and therefore lets not dwell on what may seem negative. The prospects do seem uncertain with regards to the consequences of mine nationalisation however let us not make a premature judgement. In this instance, if the ANC is adamant about nationalising the mines, im sure it will happen so lets not merely sit and see but rather be positive in the faith that our leaders do this with the people`s interests in mind and at heart.

  • mlungisi.crush - 2012-07-06 10:08

    I think we need people like Susan Shabangu who fears no 1 she stood up and said SHOOT the BUSTED,and she also said THE WILL BE NO NATIONALISATION DURING HER LIFE TIME » to hell with nationalisation » let's vote on that!!!!!!!!!

      mpumelelo.mgwigwi - 2012-07-06 11:07

      To hell Mlungisi bloody agent

      mlungisi.crush - 2012-07-06 12:29

      @Mpumelelo please go to school,you will have a better understanding of what we talking about!!!!!

      colourblind.rsa - 2012-07-06 12:31

      I find it hard to justify why all mpumelelo does is brutally criticise others crit is good but geez my man, it seems like you have some serious underlying issues hey. That sort of negativity and lambasting is a sign of weakness my friend. Im sure you are better than that.

  • winifred.watson.9 - 2012-07-06 10:08

    We may as well plan for this day because they are all for it. Never mind was the ANC says, they are going to nationalise everything they can, they are going to take the farmers land and then they are going to filter into the towns. At the moment, the anc are trying hard to let us believe this is not the policy, we know everything they have denied in the past has been a lie. They are just trying to strum up votes, and when that is over, they will be putting their plans in action. The people of zimbabwe were trusting and did not think their country would suffer in the way it has and still continues today. We south african people have seen this played out before our very own eyes, so dont be trusting like the zimbabwe people, just know it is going to happen and its just when and what are we going to do. Are we going to sit back and let it happen are we going to run like they did in zimbabwe are we going to wait while they kill us or throw us out. This is the question we all need to ask our selves. Even the poor zimbabwean black people have suffered under their own government, they too have run across their borders. Its the politicians that are at the centre of this and all will be done for self enrichment. Look what they have allowed the chinese to set up business given them a 5 year sponsorship no tax, they dont even employ our people. Nobody has spoken out about this, why, because money is going into the coffers of you know who.

  • eugene.brink.9 - 2012-07-06 10:17

    It's not AN option for the ANC, it's their only option other than the status quo because they have no other ideas. It's funny how the left is always so charitable with other people's money. And can someone please apprise these Commie mandarins and their ignorant followers that nationalisation will not create jobs or boost BBBEE, but only change the ownership of mines (read: lead the gargantuan corruption), cost loads of money and bring very few benefits to the poor. On the whole, it will be a dismal failure

  • rob.bayliss.94 - 2012-07-06 10:28

    The manner that high profile people communicate tells a lot about their mindset. Gondogwana characterises nationalisation as a weapon. What??????? Is there really a need for such warmongering rhetoric?

  • Thobile Lugwadu - 2012-07-06 10:30

    The ANC will always speak with forked tongues given the fact that they are currently sandwitched between beijing and washington. The longer they procastinate,the more people will debate nationalisation. The whites who dont want us to debate this matter are the very poeple who always talk about freedom of speech and an open society. They must bring about alternatives instead of hurling insults at anyone who proposes equitable share of the mineral resources. The steel wheel of the liberation struggle is in motion,albeit at a slow pace. South Africa belongs to all who live in it, wealth redistribution will acrue to the state as the castodian of all the people as a whole.

      eugene.brink.9 - 2012-07-06 11:08

      @ Thobile: Luckily we live in a free country and luckily people with nonsensical opinions like yours are not taken seriously. If you can't even see the diferences between freedom of speech and the redistribution of minerals, there is a serious problem. Nationalisation hasn't worked anywhere (including in African countries like Zambia) and nationalisation will only give you a penance each month, it won't provide work on a large scale. The ANC holds nationalisation up as an eye-blind, but they never implement it. Why? They're not stupid, they know where the true wealth is generated and that is in the free hands and minds of people. We live in a knowledge economy, so wake up and acquire some!

      Thobile Lugwadu - 2012-07-06 12:36

      I am immune to insults and other derogatory inuendos. I respect those who proove me wrong by coming up with alternative proposals. I am pan-Africanist in nature, i know where I stand right now. I am pro nationalisation simple because i have worked for white capitalist system for over a decade. If any of the white magoots here know anything named lean manufacturing vs mass production, one would understand that the monopoly capital is after maximum profits, not job creation. The bosses would wait like vultures for natural and deliberate attritions to get rid of the workers instead of rescheduling work and rotating workers. Worker numbers go down, company turn over goes up, government smiles with tax revenue whilst unions cry over diminished premiums. Time will tell.

      eugene.brink.9 - 2012-07-06 15:44

      @ Thobile: The alternative proposals you're referring to is determined by the rules of life and the modern economy. And I've already explained them to you, but let my summarise it again for you: We live in a knowledge economy where information, the Internet and knowledge, combined with ingenuity and hard work as well as the free market, hold sway. Try to change it or deny all you want, that is how the world operates. That is why Finland, Australia, Singapore and Hong Kong all score the highest on any human development or economic index, and countries like the DRC, Somalia, Zimbabwe and Chad are all perenially stuck at the bottom. Those countries that play by these rules have higher life expectancies, wealthier populations and generally better living standards. Natural resources do not determine wealth like in the past. Why does a country like Sweden with virtually no significant natural resources to export, score so much higher than the DRC, with loads of exportable resources? Human resources is the answer: A happy, educated, knowledgable workforce with the requisite skills to match the opportrunities in the economy. A nationalised mine will probably be boycotted by buyers and will still have to contend with international 'capitalist' demand, which if you look at the Chinese, American, Brasilian and basically any other economy, will be weak and getting weaker. So there, your free lesson in political economy is over and I will henceforth be charging for my knowledge :)

      nettie.potgieter.5 - 2012-07-06 18:31

      Thobile start working for the chinees and tell us how much you will enjoy it remember they have nationalised every thing.

  • tony.vanniekerk.35 - 2012-07-06 10:45

    There will never be nationalisation in SA. There is too big an elite who stands to lose too much. As Major says, they are just keeping people like Poloya and Kolobe on a string to get their votes and confusing other racist white who keep popping up on News24. Stop worrying and find ways to make the lives of the poor better.

  • jenny.webbe - 2012-07-06 11:12

    "Deliberate confusion" implies some sort of thought has gone into the matter, whereas I believe that NO THOUGHT goes into any policy planning within the ANC. Unless of coourse it is their thoughts on how to milk the situation for their own gain. Seriously disgusting governance - it's astonishing that we all have to worry and take their random utterances seriously.

  • koos.meyer.52 - 2012-07-06 12:07

    ANC is clearly brain-dead, nationalisation has failed 100 out of 100 times. Fact - Nationilisation sucks.

  • tommyunitedstates2 - 2012-07-06 12:38

    Nationalism is not a solution The economic disadvantages of nationalization are far greater than introduction of perfect competition in the state and in the mining sector Now the competition should not be taken to the African understanding of damage, undermine, decampaign and even kill the partner like would be the case for the escalating deaths of farm owners but levels and quality of products availed on the markets both domestic and international Nationalization will simply mean buying out of foreign investors which is an affordable, with disastrous side effects and Zimbabwe as a clear example just across the boarder. The later will also reduce on foreign investment in all other sectors of the economy as foreign investors won’t be sure there firms, companies, and co operations will not be forcefully possessed by the state under there Nationalization policies which will sure give a set back, besides reduction in gross national income and national income as most third world states are dependent on foreign investors in all sectors for productivity,and income per capita How ever if the ANC is interested in venturing in any industry it is sure free to mobilize resources that can be invested in a company to compete with the existing ones in the mining sector and also improve on the product being pushed on the international market,or make the product consumable at home like most MDCs do produce for domestic consumptions and what ever available excess can be sold

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