Prisons deny sidelining coloured workers

2012-04-12 22:37

Johannesburg - Prison authorities on Thursday denied discriminating against coloured employees through affirmative action policies.

"The... allegations of deliberate discrimination and marginalisation of members of the coloured community working in the Western Cape [branch] are without merit and devoid of truth," national correctional services commissioner Tom Moyane said.

"The department... is applying national government policy with regard to the representivity of all South Africans in the work place, and the Western Cape is no exception."

He said in a statement his department was looking forward to the judiciary's interpretation of the Employment Equity Act with regard to "proportional representivity".

On Wednesday, trade union Solidarity announced it was contemplating taking the department to court over its policies.

"Over 30 individual cases could be consolidated, making this the biggest affirmative action case yet in South Africa," Solidarity deputy general secretary Dirk Hermann said.

"In these cases, the [correctional services] employees were the best candidates, but they were passed over for promotion because of the policy of absolute national demographic representivity."

He said the union consolidated the cases of five department employees - four of them coloured and one white.

Hermann said there was an "outcry" after government spokesperson Jimmy Manyi said in a televised interview in March 2010 that there was an oversupply of coloureds in the Western Cape. He was director general of labour at the time.

Manyi also advocated absolute national demographic representivity in the workplace.

"The... policy is the practical outworking of Jimmy Manyi's comments. [Minister in the Presidency] Trevor Manuel responded to Manyi in an open letter, stating that his comments were not in line with the letter and spirit of the Constitution," Hermann said.

  • Trevor - 2012-04-12 22:53

    Afirmative action is reverse apartheid.

      Godfrey - 2012-04-12 23:06

      Coloureds are "black brothers" when ANC needs votes and "not black" when the "gravy train" comes pass. I would like the WC ANC/COSATU leader to pronounce on this!!!

      JaredVN - 2012-04-13 05:24

      Dead right. Racism is racism is racism, no matter whether is is called "separate development" like before 1994, or AA or EE after 1994. Given that there was a Struggle against racism prior to 1994, it is now our duty to launch a new Struggle against the stinking ANC regime's racism, and to subvert, sabotage and resist AA and BEE in any possible way.

      deabreu - 2012-04-13 07:39

      It is the SAME principles as apartheid, it cannot be reverse because It is the same. The ANC do discrimnate against people, it does not matter how they try to justify their discrimination, it is still discrimination, putting some people into 1st class and the rest into 3rd class brackets. Sick laws by very rich people who are not affected by them.

      Lerato - 2012-04-13 10:26

      Honestly are you saying that AA is racist? Affirmative Action was brought about to reverse the negative of dark past I will rather not talk about. Remember these evil deeds were committed for over 200 years and now you are saying we must just forget about the past and those who didn’t benefit screw them lets move on. Come on now I don’t think that’s the right way to go, in SA we still need AA people’s income is still dictated by the colour of their skin, you can thumb me down all you want but its still a reality. Some Guys who were in my undergrad class despite their 3rd class degrees went on to get high position whilst I had to struggle for every penny I get. Thanks to AA otherwise I could not even been here, employers are forced by this act to employ some of us. In countries like the UK,Canada, USA etc are still applying AA what more of SA. Come on now white people its not like we want to take over your Camps Bay houses we just need to be on the same level to match our qualifications. AA must stay until there is true representation in all sectors, if 10% of SA population are white we will stop AA when we see 10% of Cleaners, Nannies, Maids, Security guards, Farm Workers, Car Guards, CEOs, Doctors, Lawyers are white. By that time then AA will be not necessary as the market will be ruling!!!!

      Rob - 2012-04-13 14:15

      Lerato: If the purpose of AA is truly to redress the unfairness of the past then there needs to be an endpoint to AA. Such endpoint being metricated on equal access to positions based on qualifications (paper and ability) and not population demographics. Sure there was a qualification discrepancy in 1994, and it remains today....and the reality is that it will remain for a very long time to come. But equating fair opportunity with population demographics simply lowers the bar for some whilst raising it for others. That is both unfare and counter-productive. So set an endpoint that realistically provides time for so-called 'previously disadvantaged' to grasp the principles of access based on merit and acquire the knowledge/skills beeded. How long...another 5 years? 10 years? 100 years. Or is it impossible to view in this manner because it is about revenge? I wonder?

  • maseratifittipaldi - 2012-04-12 23:03

    If it wasn't so barbaric and so racist, it would have been funny. Show me the colour of your thing. O.K. you qualify, but sorry, you don't. This is just another trick for the ANC to try to wedge into the Western Cape. They are trying everything. Their only objective is to take over the Province, no matter what the human cost may be. Think they care about the people?

      JaredVN - 2012-04-13 05:27

      Apparently some whites also have up to 7% "other" DNA. Wonder if the odious ANC regime will reinstate the Pencil Test to determine if some are black enough?

  • Chris - 2012-04-13 00:23

    Essentially, if you aren't the right shade of black, you will now pay for the sins of some old afrikaans farts 20 years back. So the person growing up in the Cape Flats, who benefitted nada from apartheid and was also oppressed back in the days is still thrown in the same pot with the whities? This also means that Thabo Mtender's kids will get preference at schools and universities over any coloured people's children, based solely on the colour of Thabo's skin. The fact that Thabo is an ANC member, gets lots of government tenders allowing him to drive a Merc doesn't matter, as he is black his kids still take preference over any kids from the flats in the good schools etc. The ANC is no better than the NP of old, same sh&$, different day, except more public funds are stolen these days than back then. I debated the corruption issue with a friend the other day, and we agreed that corrupt politicians exist the world over. What makes (South) Africa special, is the fact that there are no consequences to their actions, which indicates that the entire system has been corrupted and accountability to the public does no longer exist.

      Alfred - 2012-04-13 01:53

      Spot on. Affirmative action is a sham and everybody knows it.

      Jacqui - 2012-04-13 13:08

      So what's the difference then between white and black racism?. Nothing as far as I can see. Both are equally evil.

  • esethu3 - 2012-04-13 00:59

    saying AFFIRMATIVE ACTION is reversed apartheid is just being IGNORANT.The gap between a WHITE and a BLACK South African is still too wide and without AFFIRMATIVE ACTION we will never be able to fix they say Affirmative Action "re-address<--- past inequalities!!!. Then it becomes unfortunate for the colored South Africans who are in most cases left outside the equation.

      Alfred - 2012-04-13 01:48

      'without affirmative action we will never be able to fix it'. Well there you have it folks, and you said it, esethu, not me. A blatant and stunning admission of your own ineptitude. If I was black I would be downright p¡ssed off that people thought I needed an advantage just to be 'equal'. Pathetic.

      Blip - 2012-04-13 02:28

      If you can't fix the injustice in 20 years, you really won't ever fix it in 200 years. And that's why the ANC dare not put a "sunset clause" on AA. They have no confidence in their own ability to fix it, no matter what the time frame.

      JaredVN - 2012-04-13 05:30

      Yes there is a gap. One that can never be fixed by RACIST policies like AA, because it's genetic.

      Oscar - 2012-04-13 05:36

      Esathu, I think you must be intellectually challenged so I will try and explain the ignorance reflected in your statement very slowly...we have got 4 million white people in the country, we have more than 4 million black people in the country that is just as "rich" as the 4 million white people. The poverty of the other 80%+ blacks will never be fixed with affirmative action because there is just not enough jobs and money going around to do that. The way I see your and government's view on affirmative action is that the richest white person must be poorer than the poorest black person and only then affirmative action will end. Lastly, you cannot correct the creation of mankind with affirmative action, not all people are born with the same potential.

      Vernon.J.Brown - 2012-04-13 06:16

      @ esethu3 - another eastern cape refugee I see......... why arnt you in the the province of your birth, boet ? If your ideals are put into practise your new home will become like your old home............ a great big f........ up!

      pws69 - 2012-04-13 08:07

      Prisons are conveniently ignoring the fact that the laws states regional representivity is part of the equation.

      Koos - 2012-04-13 08:08

      @esethu3: Ok let me explain it to you in stupid. The Gauteng there lives 90 blacks, 15 whites and 5 coloreds. That is 100 so I’m keeping it real simple. So in Gauteng 90% of the jobs should go to blacks, 15% to whites and 5% to the coloreds. Now in the Western cape we have 10 blacks, 30 whites and 60 coloreds. So in the Western Cape 10% of the jobs should rightly go to the blacks, 30% to whites and 60% to the coloreds. Now the ANC decides that there is a “over supply” of coloureds in the Western Cape because they cannot have all the jobs they should have because the ANC wants to truck in more blacks to the Western Cape as the ANC enforces “National representation” that basically means 90% of all the jobs in the Western Cape must go to blacks even though the colourds should have 60% of all the jobs. The only “unfortunate” thing here is the lack of mathematical skills and common sense and the ANC’s tendency to discriminate at will when it suites them. Not everyone is as stupid as the normal ANC supporter. IT IS NOT FAIR NO MATTER HOW YOU CUT IT!

      esethu3 - 2012-04-13 08:43

      I think we have a problem; people only want to think the worst of our government... Justifiable in most cases YES. But I still hold firmly the belief that Affirmative Action is not an "APARTHEID look-a-like"Policy.AA policies go a long one, from the PUBLIC SECTOR to the PRIVATE even in UNIVERSITY.. If it wasn't for such policy I would not be at UCT Now. WHY? with out it; I would have been PUT in the dame dish as a PERSON who went to a PRIVATE SCHOOL and got straight As which in most cases that person is WHITE.<-- tough unfair competition right there. As much as we all like getting into places on our own MERIT, we also have to admit many BLACK South Africans would have never got the jobs that they have now without it; their skills are obviously lower than WHITE folks.and again blacks have poor skills becasue of the way Universities were structured under NP; they ensuered that the BLACK guys is less Competent than the white...YES I know there will be many DISLIKES on this COMMENT becasue we dont appreciate the TRUTH. One of the White Folks made a comment on my Update here and told me I'm a refugee and I should go back to EC... please I dont need such on COMMENTS. Because It will also affirm my position on the AA policies

      esethu3 - 2012-04-13 08:49

      OK, Now as most of the people here would love to; LETS DO AWAY WITH AFFIRMATIVE ACTION; PEOPLE MUST GET HIRED ON MERIT... THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN BE DISREGARDED.. not only for jobs but also for student admissions in UNIVERSITIES CAN you honestly say that there will be as much BLACKS as there will be WHITES? We are not in a position to do away with these policies yet... we are far away from it

      pws69 - 2012-04-13 08:56

      The Universities are no longer advantaged to whites, but disproportionally to blacks. A white student with 7 A's is denied access to allow a 50% average black student access so you are completely wrong in your assertion. Is there is disparity in primary schooling? Yes, to a degree, and this has almost everything to do with how the ANC are mismanaging schools and pandering to SADTU. Best performing government schools generally have a majority NAPTOSA affiliated faculty, and not SADTU. As a percentage of budget, we spend more than the top ten first world countries on education, yet we do not see that on the ground. Why? Where is the money going? I also have an issue with you stating your OPINION as fact, when actual PROOF contradicts you completely. Lastly, one of the negative effects of dumbing down education in order to make blacks feel good about themselves because they can now "pass" is that it reduces competitiveness. You need to face the fact that the ANC is failing the very people they are supposed to be helping. You should be demanding more from your government, not accepting less.

      justin.pretorius - 2012-04-13 09:04

      @ Esethu3. What you are actually telling us is that without regime intervention, black people won't have a chance? mmmmm....say that again?

      Koos - 2012-04-13 09:25

      esethu3: See as a white you are taught and there is expected of you to learn. Go to school and IF (yes, not all whites are guaranteed to excel, is able to afford or even get into university believe it or not) you are lucky enough to be able to afford and be excepted into a university to study your butt off. Then you are expected to enter the job marked and start from the bottom – yes believe it or not you start from the bottom. You then work your way up. That insures that when you get to the top you “know how things work”, you where thought who thing are supposed to work and now it is up to you to make things work better. Please note that not once did I refer to “burn things”, “break things”, “go on strike”, “disrupt classes”, “intimidate/attack/kill other students” and so on.

      Koos - 2012-04-13 09:25

      Now the black student “strikes”, ”burn things” and pulls the race card when he/she does not get excepted. Then the black student get bursaries and all the help they can get but doesn’t pay the fees and go on strike, burn things and so on. Then the black student doesn’t excel so they “demand” pass marks, free lodging and a branded condom in every room and then go on strike, burn things and so on... This same back student then walks out of university, becomes an ANC AA appointed director, sectional heads or some other high position that doesn’t have a clue and runs institutions into the ground because they don’t know how things work or they look like absolute morons when international “guests” come around and leave absolutely perplexed at the incompetence they just witnessed and the only excuse you can offer them is “This is Africa”. At least where I work this is my experience. Then they give each other pat on the backs and awards for jobs not well done or not done at all. You got to love it!

      Eric - 2012-04-13 09:30

      No one can deny the fact that AA is one of the main reasons for the collapse of our civil service. Finish en klaar.

      Marion - 2012-04-13 10:43

      @esethu3 - "Then it becomes unfortunate for the colored South Africans who are in most cases left outside the equation." This is not 'unfortunate' for coloured South Africans. This is plain wrong. No wonder I often hear coloureds bemoaning the fact they weren't white enough under Apartheid and now aren't black enough under 'democracy'.

      Jacqui - 2012-04-13 13:10

      Esethu3, well get your schooling then and you may not need affirmative action to get you somewhere. You all want it for nothing and that is your downfall.

  • Derek - 2012-04-13 05:34

    I may be wrong, but, to my knowledge there is no such word in the English language as "representivity". Where do these "home made" words come from?

      Pixie86 - 2012-04-13 06:25

      at this rate they should develop a South African politician dictionary- with incorrect pronounciation and all

  • raymond.kok3 - 2012-04-13 06:33

    just think back to the days of the UDF and all of this is b...............t because when the so called leaders was in so called exile the UDF kept the flame burning is the puppets Tony , Maruis anr Lynn Brown you keep on about what the DA do and yet you sit there in these meeting with your eyes and mouths closed , but i bet all your family and close friends got nice jobs thats why you dont care useless, brainless idiots

  • Mike Purchase - 2012-04-13 07:48

    Well said oscar if they cant do maths how the hell they going to run a country??Its all about race now admit african national criminals.20 years ago and before that each was to their own,look what happened,at least us proud people dont look at life with open hands expecting everything to fall into them.

  • Gerald Jordaan - 2012-04-13 08:10

    Apartheid is back with a bang! Where is the supposed democratic ANC? The only thing worse than an ANC politician is a child molester!

      Koos - 2012-04-13 08:19

      You can add lawyers to that list as well. Personally I find that history is littered with stories and accounts of happenings that clearly shows us who we can but more importantly who we cannot trust.

  • esethu3 - 2012-04-13 08:19

    I think we have a problem; people only want to think the worst of our government... Justifiable in most cases YES. But I still hold firmly the belief that Affirmative Action is not an "APARTHEID look-a-like"Policy.AA policies go a long one, from the PUBLIC SECTOR to the PRIVATE even in UNIVERSITY.. If it wasn't for such policy I would not be at UCT Now. WHY? with out it; I would have been PUT in the dame dish as a PERSON who went to a PRIVATE SCHOOL and got straight As which in most cases that person is WHITE.<-- tough unfair competition right there. As much as we all like getting into places on our own MERIT, we also have to admit many BLACK South Africans would have never got the jobs that they have now without it; their skills are obviously lower than WHITE folks.and again blacks have poor skills becasue of the way Universities were structured under NP; they ensuered that the BLACK guys is less Competent than the white...YES I know there will be many DISLIKES on this COMMENT becasue we dont appreciate the TRUTH. One of the White Folks made a comment on my Update here and told me I'm a refugee and I should go back to EC... please I dont need such on COMMENTS. Because It will also affirm my position on the AA policies

      Koos - 2012-04-13 08:41

      "tough unfair competition right there" for getting A's? So no matter how you excel just because you are white you are treated as a second rate citizen? You are denied opportunities just because you are white... mmmm sounds a little racist to me... I could be wrong but didn’t apartheid almost sound the same? So tell me esethu3 why do so many blacks go to white doctors? Honestly, I myself would not go to a doctor that has a 30% pass rate. I’m kinda attached to my organs and unfortunately ones “beliefs” can’t hold a candle to reality. Oh 8 A’s... oh sorry you can’t come here, you are white. We have to take a black of lesser quality.... now there is your “TRUTH”. About the restructuring of the Universities. That was done to kiss up to the ANC. To “fast track” blacks into positions they would not have obtained by themselves on their own merit. The same way business transformed to kiss up to the ANC. Got nothing to-do with the NP.

      mike.clery - 2012-04-13 09:07

      After nearly two decades, disadvantage is no longer a function of skin colour. Is it fair that a truly disadvantaged black child, who's performed well against all the odds, is denied a chance for further education by another black child who attended a private school, and who made the minimum effort?

      justin.pretorius - 2012-04-13 09:18

      You are a refugee

      Rob - 2012-04-13 14:38

      Esethu3: You are obviously educated, aso please conmsider.. The current policies are designed to satisfy the black majority in society (politics aside), and that is surely important. But equally important is the need to produce skilled and knowlegeable people to ensure SA competes globally AND to improve the country. These are competing needs, and if either is taken close to the extreme they become mutually exclusive. A balance is needed, a better balance than where we are today. Such balance needs to go some way to satisfy black aspirations at the same time as ensuring that white and coloured skills are not supressed or lost. This country cannot afford to destroy or lose any more of its potential, euther by emmigration or stagnation/supression.

  • Marion - 2012-04-13 08:33

    As I understood it everyone in SA who isn't white is classified black. It was just a few years ago that even the Chinese were told they were black. Are 'blacks' in South Africa only 'black' when it suits the government? Or only in certain circumstances e.g. BEE? I think it is atrocious that people who were previously disadvantaged (whether to a greater or lesser extent) are now being discriminated against again under our 'democratically elected' government.

  • Andrew - 2012-04-13 09:05

    Ask any coloured in the WC they will tell you same. Typical of the lying ANC who wanted to relocate the coloured some time ago because they vote them out down here. Typical!!!!

  • Marion - 2012-04-13 10:54

    Tokyo Sexwale's kids shouldn't be able to get jobs one day either. He once said that if someone attacks whites, his wife is being attacked, if someone attacks coloureds, his children are being attacked and if someone attacks blacks then he is being attacked. Lest we forget: (From Wikipedia): "On March 2, 2011, Manuel published an open letter to Jimmy Manyi, the spokesperson for the South African government, in which he accused him of racism and compared him to Hendrik Verwoerd. This letter was precipitated by the remarks that Manyi made about a change in the labour laws he had proposed in his previous position of Director-General of Labour. These changes affect the racial quota that employers in South Africa are to apply to their work force. PREVIOUSLY THEY NEEDED TO REFLECT THE ETHNIC COMPOSITION OF THE LOCAL COMMUNITY; THIS WOULD NOW BE CHANGED TO THE COMPOSITION OF THE COUNTRY AS A WHOLE. Such a change would have severe consequences for the Coloured community of the Western Cape as well as for the Indian community of KwaZulu-Natal. For the former only 10% of jobs would be available in regions where they form a 60% majority. Manyi claimed that there was a "surplus" of Coloureds in the West-Cape and that this 'problem' should be solved by making the members of this community spread over other provinces—a solution similar to that of relocation under apartheid."

  • Rob - 2012-04-13 11:30

    National Government policy (BEE) is racist and discriminatory. The fact that it is policy may give it legal stature but it does not change the core facts. Racists!

      Marion - 2012-04-13 11:40

      @criticallyhonest - This is the affirmative action policy, not the BEE policy.

      Koos - 2012-04-13 12:13

      @ Marion: BEE is affirmative action at business level. Let say a white company and a black owned company puts in a tender. Now on the points system firstly if it is a black company they get a lot of points. White companies get 0. Then the rest is taken into consideration. The problem is that so much points gets accumulated (and it was designed that way) by the black company (irrespective whether that company is the best option or not and in some cases not even taking into consideration if they can in fact do the job) that no white owned company can compete on any level with a black owned company. Thus BEE is designed to sideline and exclude any white owned company and makes it impossible for any white owned company to compete at any level by any means. Thus BEE = AA for business.

      Rob - 2012-04-13 12:25

      Thanks Koos...Marion does this explain ok?

  • Jacqui - 2012-04-13 13:04

    Deny, deny, deny. Boy are they good at this.

  • willybegood - 2012-04-13 13:07

    So if we apply national demographics to the WC it would mean the following:- There are 100 Jobs at an organisation: 60% of the resident population (colored's) are only entitled to 20 jobs 25% of the resident population (white) is only entitled to 10 jobs 20% of the resident populations (black) is entitled to 60 jobs 10% of the resident population (Indian) is entitled to 10 jobs Which means that out of the 100 jobs, only 60 can be filled (not enough black people to fill the 60 jobs - 40 vacant). In order to fill them, people from other area's of South Africa would need to relocate to take up these opportunities. Sounds very much like social engineering to me. I wonder if this practice is also applied in area's of the country where the is low coloured representavity (or low representativity of other groups)... i.e KZN, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, etc. Are positions being "held open" for these persons or are they being filled by black candidates?

      willybegood - 2012-04-13 13:08

      my apologies... ... where THERE is low coloured representavity...

  • Lerato - 2012-04-13 14:34

    @Criticallyhonest It’s got nothing to do with revenge. Ok can I ask you something, can you honestly say that white people are being overlooked because of AA? Can you tell me which industry in SA where white people are the minority in management positions. My point is if the minority (10%) hold 80% of the country’s management position one should be worried. It’s like going to the US and find that 75% of Senior positions are being occupied by blacks, being black myself I would smell a rat – something will be definitely wrong and there will be need to address that. SA is the only country that have laws to protect the majority from the minority (AA), this law is trying to uplift the majority in all other countries like the US,Canada, UK etc AA is used to protect the minority. Actually you may be right that we need to do away with it, but the alternative you won’t like it. Look at our neighbours, Zim, they used to have AA but now am sure they won’t need it anymore. Do you wanna do things the USA, Zim or SA way……. Where in the US-protect the minority, Zim – N/A, SA- protect the majority ………..think about that

      Tito - 2012-04-13 15:06

      It's quite difficult following your logic. To me, where you need specific laws to affirm the majority is an embarrassment. This should be a natural progression as time goes by. the unfortunate thing in south africa, is that there is a strong emphasis on the senior positions, instead of where it is needed at the entrance and grassroot levels, i.e. training, etc. Naturally, suitably qualified people would eventually move up the corporate ladder, and even more importantly branch out and form new businesses, thereby growing the country.

      Rob - 2012-04-13 15:21

      Lerato: Good, let's pass on the revenge thing and move on.... White people being overlooked? Of course they are, but take the colour/race thing out of it. Skilled and capable people of all colours (except black, although I have no doubt that is arguable and there are situations where that happens) are being overlooked in order to satisfy the demographics that you use as your foundational argument. Surely you can see that what is happening is social re-engineering, and that the effect today is that the positions today are not being filled based primarily on skills and ability. So do the re-engineering, get it over with...and as soon as possible move into a merit based system to ensure that positions are filled by the most capable. At the very list set a time frame. The price if that does not happen soon is likely to be mediocrity and despair. Let's step back even further, what we have here I think is the tension between the primacy of the individual versus the needs of society. I think that I can be described as ahumanist..I believe that each person must establish themselves based on their capabilities and achievments...I also believe that society is best served by this approach. The alternative principles, including collectivism, do very little for promoting individual ability and accountability, at least that is my view.

      Lerato - 2012-04-13 15:50

      I am not saying just appoint a person because of his/her skin colour no, I am saying blacks (by this I mean non-white) must be qualified and competent, don’t get me wrong I am not advocating for incompetent blacks to be appointed that’s a big NO. There are also white incompetent bosses, this incompetency is destroying our economy I totally agree. But remember there are plenty of competent blacks that are overlooked and the only way to get them there is through AA. If we want to be realistic take 2 guys; black and white – same qualification, competency and everything – who is most likely to be hired in SA, be honest?

      Rob - 2012-04-13 20:58

      Lerato: Who gets hired?...depends on lots of factors, not least being prejudice. But if I am looking for someone to sell liqour in Soweto I think that you know the answer. But finally try this....If hiring/promotion involves any legislated process to redress history it will cause a general lowering of competencies. Prejudice aside (and that will always be there), companies will want to hire the most effective candidate, the challenge here is to improve competencies. It may happening (and I would guess that you see yourself as evidence) but it is not happening fast enough. BEE/AA skirts around the problem and more importantly will leave a legacy that will be hard to overcome....put an expiry date on it!

  • Michael - 2012-07-06 11:47

    black people love suffering...thats all they want of white South Africans to do is suffer whilst the few privledged at the top throw a few bread crumbs to the masses.African Arcane thought is a joke and they cannnot comprehend being wrong or listening or being wasnt meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee,in short Africa will always be fuked.This is the will of your ineptitude....Africa and poverty go hand in hand.

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