Anti-Muslim group not budging on ads

2012-09-22 14:00

New York - Starting Monday, advertisements describing Muslim militants as "savages" will appear in New York's subway system, courtesy of a right-wing US anti-Islamic group.

"In any war between the civilised man and the savage, support the civilised man. Support Israel. Defeat Jihad," read the ads that the American Freedom Defense Initiative paid to be shown in the sprawling subway.

AFDI chief Pamela Geller told CNN: "I'm running them because I can."

The conservative activist, who runs the Atlas Shrugs blog and heads a group called Stop Islamization of America, defended her use of the word "savage," claiming that jihad, in the sense of holy war, targets innocent people.

"I think any war against innocent civilians is savagery," she said.

Geller insisted that the ads were not anti-religious because neither the words Islam nor Muslim appear in the ad.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which monitors hate groups, described Geller as "the anti-Muslim movement's most visible and flamboyant figurehead".

The AFDI went to court to force the New York Metropolitan Transportation Authority to accept the ads.

"I will not sacrifice my speech so as to not offend savages," said Geller.

"This is freedom of expression, this is freedom of speech," she added, noting that a federal judge ruled that her ad was guaranteed under freedom of speech protections enshrined in the US Constitution.

The controversial ads will run at a time when demonstrations are sweeping Muslim countries to protest a crudely made internet video shot in the United States mocking Islam, and French cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad.

  • joe.bat.52 - 2012-09-22 14:18

    these so called muslim fanatics have scant regard for innocent people and keep on oppressing freedom of expression and freedom of speech..I say its time all sane minded people in the universe tell those ultra sensitve fanatics to accept freedom of speech from other parts of the world that is not theirs.

      gerhard.kress.3 - 2012-09-23 18:40

      Mohammed's hygiene. Muhammad said that camel's urine should be drank as medicine for those who are feeling sick (Bukhari 1:234). He sometimes spat on his clothes (1:242). He let people catch his own spit and then rub it on their faces and skin (3:891). To someone else, he ejected a mouthful of water on them (1:188). After washing himself, Muhammad would give his dirty water to his followers to drink and smear themselves with (1:187-188).

  • demi.davidson.18 - 2012-09-22 14:34

    The muslim fanatics should get a dose of their own medicine: Christians, Jews, Hindu, Mormon, every other religion should be in muslim countries screaming for "their" religious rights/beliefs. These fanatics should be dealt with by Muslims who practice peace and love. Not allowing their religious belief to be tarnished by muslim fanatic killing, hate, murder and attempts to INTIMIDATE anyone who does not have their belief!

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-24 06:30

      We must recognise true evil. Muslims believe that it is OK to kill innocent fellow human beings as an expression of holy worship.

  • ameenah.jacobs - 2012-09-22 15:32

    What about running an ad against christian extremists? As much as the Quran gets twisted, the bible gets twisted. Just this week someone used the bible to prove that he could sleep with his daughter, they used the bible to say that apartheid was ok.

      keba.mothoagae - 2012-09-22 15:53

      Clutching at straws, are we?

      stanton.clarke - 2012-09-22 16:09

      Ameenah, Christians or any other followers of other religions does not go about treatening and killing if you dont agree with them. If anyone says something anti Islam, silly people like yourself are quick to point out the faults of others instead of dealing with the matter at hand. Ameenah, if you want to run an ad against "Christian Extremists", go ahead, we wont threaten you or kill you, GOD is greater than that and yes, that man was wrong to use the bible as his defense to sleep with his daughter.

      John - 2012-09-22 16:17

      @ameenah.jacobs By all means run the adds; you know what, that would be in line with Christianity, 'cause nobody gets forced to do anything in Christianity; it's between you and God whether you want to live like Christ or not. People were called Christians cause they lived like Christ, if you don't live like Christ you ain't really a Christian now are you? So please run the adds condemning all who call themselves Christians but willfully do those things which are contrary; but note: please add that if you accept Jesus He will help you change.

      RudiErnst - 2012-09-22 22:54

      Run the ad you want. Write Quran with capitals while you write Christian in lower case. Show your disrespect. History does not justify anything, and the Bible does not justify apartheid. Your attitude, however, is indicative of why Muslims face opposition. A closed mind cannot be opened and you have a closed mind.

      christopher.collings.9 - 2012-09-23 05:44

      like posting be-headings on the internet & the likes mmmm?

  • punungwe - 2012-09-22 15:45

    Israel and Islamic fundamentalists are equally fanatical religious savages. It would have been been better if the adverts had read, support humanism, support secularism, support freethinking, get rid of all religious dogma.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-22 18:58

      Israel and Judaism is the furthest from savagery than any society or religion on this earth.

      punungwe - 2012-09-22 19:43

      Unfortunately Larry, when the world look at the Middle East, that is not what they see. They see a totally unreasonable state enforcing an apartheid system. What is the basis of separating Israelis from Palestinians apart from religion. What is the basis of forcing Israelis and Palestinians to live separately when they are so intermingled when simple common sense says they should live together in one state. The reason is simple. In this day and age when it is not possible for anyone to remain stranded on a Pacific island without being found, because the world is increasingly a village, the Israelis are trying to maintain a near pure Jewish state, when the era for that has long since passed. Even the Roman Empire has long since passed, which was in the same era. Even our very own Munhumutapa empires have long since passed and we have forgotten about them. To me the Israelis trying to create a Jewish state is as ludicrous as us Zimbabweans trying to create a Munhumutapa empire today. The time for that came and passed. Please let us let the world move on. The basis of how interact with you Larry today is not who your ancestors were and who my ancestors were. It is simple you and me as human beings. And if we get rid of all religious dogma and become freethinkers, so much the better.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-23 07:36

      Punungwe, You must realise that there are two world views, and whereas you may believe that yours is the predominant view, this is most definitely not the case. The basis for seperating Israeli's from Palestinians is simply that The West bank and Gaza are not part of Israel and never have been in modern times. Palestinians territory may not be a sovereign state, but they are also not part of sovereign Israel. Those Arabs (who may identify themselves as Palestinians) who are Israeli citizens, live in freedom and equality in Israel with Israeli passports. There is no 'apartheid' in Israel. The conflict between Israel and West Bank Gaza, is a continuation of the unresolved impasse of the 1967 war. The Isreali's are as entitled to maintain the Jewish character of their state, as it is for all Muslim states in the Middle East to maintain their Islamic character. Let us not forget that all Arab Jews were expelled from Muslim states between 1925 and 1952, almost a million Jewish people. They landed up in todays Israel and their progeny now number 3,6 million Arab Jews living in a safe place in their home, the Middle East. The Palestinians must accept the space that Israel occupies and accept Israels terms for peace, since they lost the war of their making, and there will then be the same apartheid between two neighbouring nations, just as there is peace and neighbourly acceptance of seperateness between all other neighbouring soveriegn states of this world.

      rupesh.hari.7 - 2012-09-23 11:01

      Actually that is not true Larry. Look at how much money is spent in Jewish predominant schools vs Muslim predominant schools in Israel. Look at how much money is spent in these different areas. Look at how jobs are given. I have never been to Israel but I have heard all this from different JEWISH people from Israel. There is discrimination of Israeli Muslims.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-23 15:36

      Actually Repesh, there is discrimination in all and every country of this world. To use the term 'apartheid' as it was derived from the South African experience, is to imply that there is 'legislated' discrimination and oppression of another race group or religious group. This is not the case in Israel and all groups are represented democratically. For example, there is no longer legislated apartheid in SA, but discrimination abounds, as it does in Eevery country as mentioned. However, in fundamentalist Islamic facist countries, run by family dictatorships, discrimination is legislated against women, gays, Christians etc., and this is pure evil. Israel is a shining light by comparison.

      punungwe - 2012-09-23 19:59

      Larry my view, which I will wholeheartedly agree is a minority view, is that it is simply impractical and ludicrous to try and administer, Israel, Gaza and the West Bank as three separate states. One state, equal rights, full stop. To me that is very simple common sense and I can never figure out why such simple common sense doesn't get into the heads of Israelis and Palestinians. I belong to neither of the two groups so maybe I will never know. And I repeat, trying to maintain a Jewish state today, is simply remaining stranded 2000 years ago in history. The world has moved on and is moving on and I simply do not understand why anyone would want to remain stuck in meaningless history. There is nothing wrong with people being proud of their history. I am definitely proud of my heritage but I am not going to turn around today and demand the we have a Barwe empire because my ancestors once had such an empire. The times have changed, and my people have changed with the times. Why can't others move on with the times as well.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-24 06:41

      Punungwe, Your suggestions would be relevant if stated pre-Israeli independence in 1948, however the reality now is that Israel exists and was legally ratified as a sovereign nation by the United Nations. The Jewish people have suffered 2000 years of deprivations at the hands of their fellow man, and now they have created the means to protect themselves and live within a Jewish nationality. Why should this be denied to them, even now? Isreal 'occupies' the West Bank only to avert an on-going war of attrition that the Palestinians, supported by Muslim Arab nations, have waged upon Israel since independence. Israel wants nothing more than to withdraw from the West Bank and to lift the stranglehold on Gaza, but it needs security and peace from its neighbours and normalised co-habitation with them. In the absence of this, Israel must continue to hold the upper hand, and it will.

      punungwe - 2012-09-24 19:40

      Larry, you seem to be missing my point. Israel, West Bank and Gaza should be one state. Israel certainly wants to have something to do with the West Bank and Gaza because it is building settlements there. So make the whole territory one state so that Israelis and Arabs can move freely throughout that territory as people of one country. Get rid of this fallacy that they are part of two separate countries. Going to the subject of a people being short-changed for centuries, you sound like you want us to start delving in the subject of slave trade and colonialism. I am sure you are very aware of how blacks were severely short-changed and exploited during those two eras. But we are not constantly moaning and whining about it.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-24 19:59

      Punungwe, Not a chance in hell. To consider that the West bank and Gaza should be annexed to form a greater Israel is the fallacy of fallacies. You have been sucked into a dream that neither the Palestinians, nor the Israeli's would consider. On the one hand (Israel), the incorporation of the Palestinian population into Israeli citizenship would change the demographic character of Jewish Israel into one where they would soon be a minority. Thanks but we have lived as a minority for 2000 years and we are not going back there. On the other hand (Palestinian), ther is little hope that there would be agreement to become part of a greater Israel, without the obvious intention to subvert the Jewish character, and democratic nature, into another dysfunctional Islamic theocracy. Nice try, but get your head out of the clouds.

  • hannah.p.mostert - 2012-09-22 15:50

    Well done Gellar I support you, long live freedom of speech

  • keba.mothoagae - 2012-09-22 15:50

    No religion can claim to be holier or more righteous than the other. But good grief, few morons have sh*t all over what is good about Islam since Bin Laden's rise. A minor slight against Islam and things immediately go up in flames and blood flows. I'm sorry my Muslim brothers and sisters but this really needs to be addressed for the world has become suspicious about what you really stand for. Please don't hide behind the blasphemy indignation.

      RudiErnst - 2012-09-22 23:00

      Thanks for your balanced comment Keba. Respectfuly, I agree, and it is a sad day when extremism becomes the order of the day. Regardless of whether people agree, respect for the views of others, is essential for humanity to move forward.

  • roberto.casarelo - 2012-09-22 16:05

    More harm was done by muslims against Christians than the other way around

      RudiErnst - 2012-09-22 23:02

      Hey Roberto... I don't thing we should be measuring this in terms of harm. Killing others can only reflect badly on the killer, not on the victims, regardless of the reason or justification.

  • roth.eugen - 2012-09-22 16:10

    I am sick and tired of hearing that Muslims are peace loving. Where is this silent majority?? Why do I NEVER hear these so called moderate Muslims condemn the atrocities committed by the fundamentalists? Are they afraid they will get their hands cut off or maybe even their heads? So what is the true face of Islam? Terror or Peace?

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-22 19:01

      Muslims are the creators of their own downfall. The more they protest against Western freedoms, the stronger these freedoms will assert themselves against Islamic savagery.

  • jeremy.forbes.1293 - 2012-09-22 16:15

    Muslims, in an age of global information systems need to be accustomed to their religion being scrutinised.Responding to the baiting, in a violent manner, that has gone on a recent weeks, in the way they have across the globe,will only lead to further events such as these.A religion with a billion adherents should be way above this.

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-22 19:01

      Extremely fragile religion.

  • alex.nkosi.39 - 2012-09-22 17:25

    Islamaphobia again in SA!! You white racists , why don't you stop this hate speach, don't you know that muslims in MZANZI are millions in cape town and durban and even in other towns. On the other hands, i know that your racist fathers teach you how to discrinimate others. Aparatheid is over?!

      alex.nkosi.39 - 2012-09-22 17:38

      Islamic extremists(alqaeda) and israelis are, in my understanding, major peace threating and real terrorists globally.

      khabir.hoosen - 2012-09-22 18:21

      Finally someone with a brain. To all of you that keep making mention of Islam and Muslims as terrorists....have you ever seen any such thing in this country? EVER????? No you have not, you just see what your brothers and sisters want you to see especially from the USA and you just follow like sheep. As for the reject Aisha, why don’t you tell us the real reasons for your constant attack on Islam, come on tell tell. Islam have followers that you will NEVER understand because you will never be a Muslim so please concentrate on what you know and your own religion and leave others alone. I do not stand for terrorism especially when innocent people die but stop generalising for he who generalises generally lies....

      RudiErnst - 2012-09-22 23:08

      Your comments have no validity if you are simply trolling. If not, put a real link to the real person who holds the views. Nobody is attacking Islam "YNWA", relax and direct your enmity at the enemies of Islam that make the belief into one of violence... primarily, that comes from within the proponents of Islam and not Christianity. I have no affiliation to either belief, but I can see who is killing whom...

      demi.davidson.18 - 2012-09-23 09:06

      And what are YOUR comments if not "hateful"?? You need to grow up you 'whatever colour' like-wise racist! This has NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOUR YOU FRIGGIN IGNORANT IMBICILE. This is about fanatical terrorists loving death, destruction, murder and trying to enforce their ideals onto others.

      michael.mars.104 - 2012-09-23 09:44

      Actually YNWA, 25 August 1998 A packed Planet Hollywood restaurant in Cape Town, South Africa was bombed Tuesday night, killing one woman and injuring more than two dozen others, many seriously.A man claiming responsibility said the blast was in retaliation for U.S. attacks on targets in Sudan and Afghanistan last week. FACT.

      michael.mars.104 - 2012-09-23 09:47

      29 November 1999 One woman lost a leg and several children were believed to have been among up to 48 people who were injured when a bomb exploded yesterday afternoon in a popular Cape Town pizza restaurant. I reckon these PIGS are everywhere including South Africa. Do your research before opening your trap.

  • larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-22 18:54

    It is very unfortunate that civilised people must lower themselves to fight the uncivilised savage, but this is the only way, because the savage will not subject themselves to civilised warfare. I say fight fire with fire. the alternative is to accept savagery as the norm.

      alex.nkosi.39 - 2012-09-22 19:12

      @lary, we can see how hypoocrite and uncivilized you!, and its better for you to do this in israel, not here in MZANZI, and fight along with your racist brothers in jerusalam.

      insawf.londt - 2012-09-22 22:19

      Suicide bombings is a Product of Imperialist Globilization and Zionist Brutality

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-23 07:42

      YNWA, you are an imbecile. More Muslim citizens of Syria have been killed in the past six months by their own repressive government, than all the Muslims killed by Israel in the last 6 decades.

      muhammad.mokoena - 2012-09-23 08:09

      Hey Larry u evil disbeliever In Allah! Don't u know Muhammad pbuh was mentioned in the song of songs? As for zionist crimes against Muslims in Palestine. From when they came illegally into Palestine from Europe they killed thousands! And till today they kill thousands! And they target apartment buildings with bombs! To do maximum damage! Kill as much as they can! Indiscriminately! If the Jews are the chosen people of God then why did God punish them for doing wrong?

      larry.lachman.54 - 2012-09-23 10:24

      Hey muhammad, you believe in killing the infidel as a holy expression of worship. Nothing can be more evil than this. If there is a god, then he has made Israel and he has made Israel stronger than all of Islam, and this is the humiliation that your god is testing you with.

  • Zahir - 2012-09-22 19:38

    USA is the only country in the world that has used the atomic bomb on a civilan population killing millions in a matter of seconds we don't see them apolgize for these killings

      khabir.hoosen - 2012-09-22 20:37

      @CockyCocky, so if muslims invented suicide bombers does that make it ok for them to practice it??

      insawf.londt - 2012-09-22 22:16

      they used it twice the bomb, now they using drones to kill innocent people they suspect of being 'terrorrist' lets make a billboard about how savage drone murders are, How about making an add whats the difference between an Pakistani child and an American? answer: the Pakistani can be used as target practice for the Americans Drones lets call it 'Collateral Damage'.

      riaan.mostert.58 - 2012-09-22 22:23

      Interestingly enough it was the atom bomb that ended World war 2. If it wasn't for the events in Hiroshima and Nagasaki million more would have died in a senseless war. So you could say that it was a high price to pay for world peace.

      khabir.hoosen - 2012-09-22 22:24

      @CrookedCocky, my memory seems to evade me so please tell me when did Muslims compose any material that ridcules Jesus or Christianity? Will you make a lion a pet in your home knowing the consequences of such moronic behaviour. No you would not unless you are inticing stupidity! Dont do the crime if you cant do the time. Do you for one second think that the moron that made such a movie gave even a miniutes thought to the aftermath of making such a movie? Of course he did. Give me one GOOD reason why you feel he made such a movie? Muslims pray 5 times a day from sunrise to sunset! When last did you do that? So you can imagine the passion that they have for what they believe in whether its right or wrong... You ever met an ignorant man before Corky?

      RudiErnst - 2012-09-22 23:17

      Zahir, do I understand you to say that bombing Pearl harbour, and the accompanying loss of life, was acceptable? Or is killing only acceptable in your mind if Western people are killed?

  • insawf.londt - 2012-09-22 22:31

    when ahmadinijad expressed his right to freedom of speech by stating his opinion that Israel has to be wiped of the planet, i wonder who shouted 'FREEDOM OF SPEECH'

      khabir.hoosen - 2012-09-22 23:06

      Corky you make no sense at all just putting words together to hide your idiotic way of thinking. Do the world a favour and sleep!

      muhammad.mokoena - 2012-09-23 02:43

      Quirky, corky, whatever stupidity you stand for. You fail to realise the truth in Islam. In my posts I have invited people to research Islam. Do u think you are here to play a fool? Do u actually think u just eat sleep enjoy and then work to eat sleep and enjoy?? have u not seen the skies raised up without pillars. And the sun and ur eyes and how they are more perfect than any lense? Think for a moment alone without anyone with u, is ur life so useless? Islam is serious because God has told us that it is the difference between having good in this life and the hereafter or evil. That's why we venerate the sacred things of God's religion/system/way.

  • muhammad.mokoena - 2012-09-22 23:53

    I have been reading the comment and people are saying that Muslims have killed more than anyone. Let's get the facts straight, the US has justified killing 1 MILLION children in Iraq on international television!! Be objective!! \r\n\r\nAs for this woman and her cowboy tactics, it is good publicity for the true religion/system/way of God Almighty. If you want to know why Muslims see their religion in such a serious light then I invite u to study the quran. If it from almighty God then whatever he says is the truth and we have to accept. The quran itself is a linguistic miracle. It cannot be copied. It has scientific miracles that agree with modern science. It has historical miracles. And it was revealed to Muhammad pbuh who was unable to read or write. Please go to for more info or reply to me.

      jake.thesnake.3950 - 2012-09-23 02:10

      Ha-ha-ha! How ignorant. "The quran itself is a linguistic miracle. It cannot be copied.". How gullible ARE you?

      muhammad.mokoena - 2012-09-23 02:26

      @Jake. By that I mean that the Arabic is inimitable. Someone cannot produce something in Arabic like this. And this is a quranic challenge. \If you are in doubt as to what we have revealed to our servant. Then bring a chapter like unto it\. I referred u to a website. Please feel free to have a look and see what both non-Muslim and Muslim scholars of quranic linguistics say about the quran.

  • zaks2217 - 2012-09-23 06:23

    Ah more attention for Islam. Thank you. This is like the negative publicity stunt. Now muslims will sell more Qurans. These idiots like pam geller and robert spencer just don't get it.

  • LandyNut - 2012-09-23 08:36

    It is interesting that it is stated that the Muslims "pray" 5 times a day. If you have ever lived in Saudi (I have, in Jubail for 5 years) and you see the Mutawa (spelling)in their kort broek using whips to beat people and forcing them to go to the Mosque. Most of these guys did go to Mosque because they were to scared not to!!!!

  • mush.maluleka - 2012-09-23 11:12

    Its all the same God...religion is man-made, faith and the principles taught by all these religions is what is divine.I'm quiet certain that anyone promoting the downfall of another religion hasn't bothered to learn enough about it; we sit here and insult each other in the name of the same Entity because we have different names for It..we are as bad as the very ones we condemn...just some thoughts from a former "savage"

  • chikunga - 2012-09-23 14:25

    I challenge all muslim to justify killing innocent people for the sake of their prophet.and when the Americans did it in Iraq and Afghanistan, did we say that its fine. this madness is just bollocks.I hate Muhammad, but I will not kill a muslim for the sake of my belief.I recently heard that Mohammed married an under 10 therefore I must be killed for saying this is madness to believe in this guy. My point is to all moslems, please let me be.let me believe what I want, please dont kill me for having a different opnion with you.Please dont bomb the kids becuase maybe they are the future moslems. Engage tactically to win a fair share of the world resources, stabilise your states so the americans and west wont have loopholes to engage in unfairly with you. Please believe in Mohammad but dont kill me for not believing in you.Pleease

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