Are Israel's pre-1967 borders indefensible?

2011-05-26 10:06

Jerusalem - During a swing through Washington this week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu repeatedly said his country's pre-1967 lines are "indefensible".

A total withdrawal from the West Bank, a strategic highland looming over central Israel, would certainly leave the Israeli heartland more vulnerable to attack or invasion.

But some experts say that long-range missiles, weapons of mass destruction and cyber-warfare mean that in the modern world the greater risks lie elsewhere - especially if a future Palestine is demilitarised.

The border issue is now at the heart of the latest tensions in Mideast peace efforts. Seeking to break an eight-month deadlock, President Barack Obama last week proposed that Israel commit to establishing a Palestinian state based on its frontiers before the 1967 Middle East war, when it captured the West Bank, east Jerusalem and Gaza Strip. The Palestinians claim all three areas for their state.

Israel withdrew unilaterally from Gaza in 2005. But Netanyahu says a similar pullout from the other areas, even as part of a negotiated peace deal, would jeopardise his country's security on a different scale.

A return to those lines would leave Israel with a waistline 15km wide at its narrowest point, Jerusalem surrounded on three sides by Palestinian land and the country's main international airport just a few kilometres away from the border. If hostilities break out, Israel's largest cities could be vulnerable to rocket fire and other attacks.

Geography in war

Yet experts note that Israel waged the 1967 war - the most decisive military victory in its history - from these same lines. And today, its overwhelming military superiority leaves it in a strong position to defend itself against any external threat.

"Geography only plays a limited role in war. What you really don't want is people who hate you on the other side," said Martin Van Creveld, a military historian at Hebrew University in Jerusalem.

He said Netanyahu's insistence that Israel maintain control of the Jordan Valley, a strategic area along the West Bank's eastern border with Jordan, would be better for Israeli security but is not "entirely necessary".

Even Obama doesn't expect a pullback to the exact 1967 lines. In a pair of speeches, he said a peace treaty should be "based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps".

The Palestinians have accepted this position. But they envision only tiny modifications to the former lines, and expect an equal amount of territory inside what is now Israel in return. Netanyahu has indicated this is unacceptable.

Still, two previous Israeli prime ministers - Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert - offered the Palestinians peace treaties that would have included an Israeli withdrawal close to the 1967 border. A third, Ariel Sharon, considered the line "a reference point", according to his top aide, Dov Weisglass.

Pessimistic outlook

Former Israeli lawmaker Isaac Ben-Israel, a retired Israeli air force general, said the matter is therefore less about military considerations alone and more about policy and neighbourly relations.

He noted that Holland and Belgium have "indefensible borders" and in the past have been susceptible to invasion. "But that doesn't matter now because they have no external enemy," he said.

He said the prime minister's approach to the borders conveys a pessimistic outlook that peace will not necessarily translate into a cessation of hostilities.

The public seems to agree with Netanyahu. According to a survey published on Wednesday, 61% of Israelis oppose the formula of 1967 borders with land swaps as a basis for an agreement with the Palestinians, while only 27% favour it. The Geocartographia Institute's poll surveyed 500 Jewish Israelis and had a margin of error of four percentage points.

Giora Eiland, another retired general, says that Israel's security doctrine has never assumed that peace would bring quiet and that under these circumstances controlling land does matter.

While longer-range missiles can already reach all of Israel, he said a West Bank withdrawal could put the country's heartland - Jerusalem, the airport and the Tel Aviv region - in range of the short-range rockets and mortars that have made life miserable for those near Gaza.


He added that a demilitarised state, which the Palestinians say they would accept, would preclude the threat of tanks, artillery and fighter jets, but not be able to prevent smuggling of shoulder-mounted, anti-tank missiles. Hamas militants have brought these weapons into Gaza and used them against Israeli targets.

"You can't inspect these types of weapons and there is no effective way to stop them," said Eiland, a former Israeli national security adviser.

He said Israel would remain particularly vulnerable since most of the land swaps are expected to be devoted to annexing existing settlement blocs rather than holding on to key strategic points, such as areas outside Jerusalem or near Ben-Gurion airport.

"The bottom line is, these are very uncomfortable lines for us," he said.

Eiland, who stepped down as security adviser in 2006, said that in internal discussions at the time, Israeli officials spoke of 12% of the West Bank as the minimum Israel would have to hold on to secure its most basic security needs.

During peace talks in 2008, Olmert proposed keeping about 6%, while the Palestinians proposed giving Israel just 1.9%.

Van Creveld, the military expert, countered that some of the settlement enclaves Israel wants to keep would actually make Israel's borders more indefensible.

"That West Bank would look like Swiss cheese and you can't defend Swiss cheese," he said. "The situation as it existed before '67 shows that Israel can perfectly defend itself."

  • tigertank - 2011-05-26 10:14

    Israel has every right to keep that land. They won it in battle against overwhelming odds, from aggressive neighbours, who to this day wish their complete destruction. Keep it Israel, keep it all. - 2011-05-26 11:05

      It is a well known but often over looked fact that, Israel provoked the war knowing fully well that Egypt the "aggressor" was neither in a position to attack nor intended attacking, Prime Minister Menachem Begin said: “The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that [Egyptian President] Nasser was about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” Yitzhak Rabin, who as chief of staff planned this attack told Le Monde in February 1968, quite simply: “We knew that Nasser did not intend to attack.”

      GMan - 2011-05-26 11:21


      pop101 - 2011-05-26 11:35

      Interesting rda, what about Syria and Jordan. How prepared were they? Also, I've read that the Arab air force were heavily supported by countries like Saudi, Libya and Kuwait (they were there even before the first shot were fired). Also, here's a little tip if you ever find yourself facing a deadly enemy (who public announces he wants to wipe you of the face of the earth)- Attack is the best defense - Sun Tsu (Art of War)

      Victoria - 2011-05-26 13:11

      @ Truthseeker. Are you for REAL? Try smoking something else!

      james4usa - 2011-05-26 14:15

      Israel had NO right to settle that land according to Geneva Convention. Israel also Violated UN Res 242, 338. A truly rogue, Political Theocracy, Socialist state. The chief Rabbinate holds sway.

      Mike - 2011-05-26 14:58

      @Truthseeker I tend to disagree with you that the anti-christ will come from the Zionists. When one readsa more about the islamic caliphate that is more likely where the anti-christ will the moslim brotherhood is on the rise in many islamc countries that banned them, ie Egypt for one, now they running for goverment there. Hammas & fattah are link directly the moslem brotherhood, and every other terrorist group in mid east. The goal is to bring sharia law to every moslem state and the rest of the world, freedom as you now know it will be lost. They will either kill you or force you to be a moslem, and because you're not a born moslem you'll be payong higher taxes than a real rag head. Zionists have mastered the art of finance some say they're the illuminati and new world order organisers maybe but they not going to have the anto-christ come out there ranks, it will come out of islam. Dubai is not built on oil,it is now the financial capital loaning money to the world. China will also see its day but not for to long. So maybe Truthseeker start reading other things besides conspiracy stories, start reading up on the moslem brotherhood, the caliphate you'll get a bigger picture of who the real enemy of humanity is.

      Tea party - 2011-05-28 13:30

      @tigertank I share your sentiment,however Israel may have a real opportunity for peace here. They can utilize the land swoppes to ensure maximum defensibility. They can choose to hold on to the land, and the hostilities continues. On the other hand I don't know how much the Palestinians could be trusted, as I would not be overwhelmingly surprised if they attack Isreal after such a land redistribution. But they must give peace a chance.

      Tea party - 2011-05-28 13:33

      @rdadabhay if your enemy points a loaded gun at you, how would you know whether they intend on pulling the trigger or not? Best to fire first.

  • ?????? - 2011-05-26 10:19

    Israel will never withdraw,their intention is for all palestinians to leave.The only reason why Israel won,was because of the west,who supplied weapons and so forth.A two state solution is the obvious solution with Jerusalem as a shared capital,but do you think Israel would want this? Not on your life,even if every palestinian was unarmed,its Israeli mentality to misuse and abuse past atrocities against them to gain in the future.Stop having pity for Israelis and the faster we do this,the faster they will seek a peaceful solution with the palestinians

      Mister A - 2011-05-26 10:39

      I think that you give a very biased view here. The only reason the Israeli's won is because they were fighting for their existence. The Palestinians and the armies of eight other Arab nations were beaten also because of their arrogance. The Palestinians would have had their State in 1948 too if they weren't blinded by their fellow Arab's arrogance and greed. The Palestinians chose war over peace & a state of their own in 1948 and are paying for it ever since. That is the reality of the situation there.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 10:52

      I disagree with you.Stealing land from others doesnt justify Israel's existence.A referendum was never held in British Palestine,but Israel came into existence because of external powers.A Palestinian state today still doesnt exist because of Israeli theft of palestinian land.Its rather simple to understand

      Magoo - 2011-05-26 10:54

      And we can always refer back to that famous quote: "If Palestine lays down it's guns there will be no more war. If Israel lays down it's guns there will be no more Israel." Having said that, negotiation is part of the peace process.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 10:59

      @Magoo, That statement you made is one of the dumbest I have heard.If someone is a Jew that doesnt make them of Hebrew descent,and therefore have no historic claim to Israeli land,which is what most Jews are. Its very simple: stop stealing Palestinian land and then there will be peace,and share Jerusalem between muslims,christians and jews.

      Arno Young - 2011-05-26 11:05

      Why do you say Israel stole the land, when it was given to them by the Brithish (Balfour Declaration)? Background: By the end of the First World War, Great Britain had the British Mandate for Palestine. The issuance of the Balfour Declaration greatly increased the immigration of Jews to Palestine. In 1947, Great Britain decided to turn its Mandate over to the United Nations, which, in the same year, adopted Resolution 181, partitioning the land into two states, one Arab and one Jewish. The Jewish community agreed to the partition, but Arab countries and Palestinian Arabs did not, resulting in the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, the first in a series of wars fought between Israel and the Arab world.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:13

      @Arno young, Of course they stole the land.The map of Israel todays look VERY different to what it looked like in 1948.For a settlement to have taken place would have required both sides to agree,however only one side's view was taken and implemented which is why we have this ongoing fight for land taking place today

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-26 11:16

      Mr. Noname - I beg to differ - Israel was promised in the Old Testament to decendants of the offspring of the "covenant" people, the Jews - i.e. Israelites and Judean decendants, not Arabs! Arabs where never part of the covenant which God made with Abraham when he said, from your seed the entire world will be blessed! Arabic nations distort this notion by saying that Ismael, the son of Haran the concubine is in fact the covenant child because he was born first, but scripture is clear, Isaac, Sarah's offspring will be the covenant... Fight as you may, but this promise to Israel will remain untill the end... "And you shall be scattered amongst the nations, but I will call you back to Israel to redeem my promise..."

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:19

      @Wolraad, Most Jews alive today are not of Hebrew or Judean descent.However some palestinians are.And that covenant you mentioned is a broken covenant,because of sins hebrew committed.So your statement is nullified

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-26 11:24

      God's promises remain, whether we are true to it or not... It's a promise in blood. You cant compare one sugar droplet in a 2 litre bottle of water, with a 2 litre bottle of water with 3 sugar droplets... The promises still remains as a testimony to the world...

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-26 11:26

      Whether you like it or not, that is the facts... All I'm saying is, you cannot change prophesy, even if you want... Carry on trying, it remains a promise from God to Abraham, and that will remain till the end... Sorry it sound politically incorrect to you, but that is the history, and the promise, neither you nor Arabia can erase that - Even if you try.

      Arno Young - 2011-05-26 11:28

      “Thus says the LORD: ‘If you can break My covenant with the day and My covenant with the night, so that there will not be day and night in their season, 21 ‘then My covenant may also be broken with David My servant.. Picks up a bit later: Thus says the LORD: ‘If My covenant [is] not with day and night, [and if] I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth, 26 ‘then I will cast away the descendants of Jacob and David My servant, [so] that I will not take [any] of his descendants [to be] rulers over the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For I will cause their captives to return, and will have mercy on them.’

      Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-26 11:29

      They are decendants from Abraham in spirit at least... Even it is only on a distant maternal line, they remain Jews (therefore, covenant people)

      pop101 - 2011-05-26 11:53

      Mr. Invisible: Many maps have changed over the years. The main reason for this being wars fought - do you think Germany and most of the European countries, Russia, Japan, China, India, South Africa etc. etc. were always as they are now depicted on maps. If so, then I suggest a couple of classes in Geography, combined with some History. So what if Israel won against an enemy that wants its destruction, only because of Western Aid, nothing is going to change the end result.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:54

      @wolraad, Oh so i got u into a corner and now u claim they are descendents of abraham in "spirit" at least,do u know how stupid and amusing that sounds? LOL A Hebrew descendents can be anyone,even muslims or christians.

      Victoria - 2011-05-26 13:13

      You are talking absolute garbage and ignoring the facts. The Palestinians were originally asked to leave by the neighbouring countries so they could sweep through and kill all the Jews. You conveniently forget to mention this fact.

      Krush - 2011-05-26 13:43

      @no name. You don't have a clue what you're talking about. There were 12 tribes split into 2 groups, ephraim and judah. Judah is current day jews living in israel. Ephraim is the wild olive tree. You are not jewish by spirt but by birth and bloodline. The 10 tribes made up of simeon, dan, naphtali, gad etc are all over the earth, God Himself will call them back to their land - however they are still israeli through blood. The land belongs to the JEWS. They are God's chosen people. You try go up against them you'll hit a a very big, very strong, very high, very indestructible wall - because you'll be coming up against God. Go and read about the 6 day war and you tell me if you think it was strategy that won that war or a miracle.

      Valis - 2011-05-26 16:24

      You people are all loony, clinging to your primitive superstitions :(

      Tea party - 2011-05-28 13:50

      @no name if the land was offered to the Jews by the UNITED NATIONS and they accepted it, blame the UN. It's not Israel's fault. One can use exactly the same mentality and say that most of the land in the world was stolen from somebody by somebody else!

      Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:03

      In your dreams there will be peace.

      Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:05

      At the oke who says that the Jews are God's people, you are misled. Israel was Gods people, not the Jews. They are not the same people.Even Jesus knew that.

  • Arno Young - 2011-05-26 10:51

    "Geography only plays a limited role in war. What you really don't want is people who hate you on the other side," a) apparently geography does play a role b) Hamas ('Palestinian' people) does not accept Israels' right to exist, in fact, their charter(s) calls for Israels destruction. Conclusion: Israel must take the necessary steps to guarantee its safety. The fact that Israel defended itself in 1967, definitely does NOT mean, her enemies remained ignorant. It also does not mean that if her enemies attacked first, that she would have been able to defend herself.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:01

      Why mention only Hamas? Why do you fail to mention all the israeli who dont recognise a palestinian people and palestinian state? very biased from you

      Arno Young - 2011-05-26 11:15

      Easy, because Israel will accede to guaranteed peace. Hamas is not willing to give it. So why should Israel recognize a Palestinian state, if Hamas is not willing to do the same? Because what Hamas sees as a Palestinian state is the whole of Israel. By recognizing Israels' right to exist undermines their own charter, which calls for the destruction of Israel.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:55

      @Arno, All this mumbo jumbo u hear from netenyahu and obama are just that,MUMBO JUMBO.What they say on TV and what they say behind closed doors are quite different. Its a well known fact that Israel isnt interested in peace,why else would they continue to steal palestinian land,even as we speak?

      Arno Young - 2011-05-26 12:17

      Please explain what part of Palestine Israel has stolen.

      stukyster - 2011-05-26 12:20

      They haven't taken any new land since 1967. Stop spreading miserable lies.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 12:21

      @Arno I cant believe that THAT was a serious question.Please do your research so that you can become a free thinker.

      Arno Young - 2011-05-26 12:28

      That was a serious question. Land was given (Balfour/UN). UN amongst others refer to 'occupied Palestinian territories'. Not stolen. The question of occupation is also debatable as the 'occupation' is within the armistice line agreed to after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Please point me in the right direction as my research differs from yours.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 12:49

      @Arno. "UN amongst others refer to 'occupied Palestinian territories'" What the UN says,who is basically a tool of the USA,UK and Israel,is different to what happens on the ground.You cannot sit there and tell me/us that when Israel occupies Palestinian land,and starts to build houses for settler communities,that the land is "occupied",because its obviously stolen,when this takes place. "The question of occupation is also debatable as the 'occupation' is within the armistice line agreed to after the 1948 Arab-Israeli War." Are u serious? How can anyone negotiate properly with a gun held to your head? Or when innocent palestinians were massacered since 1948. Israel even has a history of conducting terrorist activities against the british and the americans

      Carl Muller - 2011-05-26 12:58

      Good for you....

      Arno Young - 2011-05-26 13:12

      I disagree. If the UN was an Israeli tool, then why has the U.N. passed more resolutions condemning Israel than it has all other nations combined ? It's not stolen. It belongs to Israel under the Armistice agreement of the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Negotiations fell away after the Arab world rejected the two-state solution as provided for, and attacked Israel. In short: Israel took control of land lost by the attackers. Israel did not steal. You cannot say Israel must play nicely, if the other side did not (aka initiated the war). A history of terrorist activities? I am not aware of those activities you are referring to, please elaborate.

      POLS_G - 2011-05-26 15:03

      Arno, you are deluded. Get in touch with reality. Read the news. How on earth can you even question what land Israel have stolen from the Palestinians? Numerous reports have found that Israel illegally extends their borders into Palestinian territory on a daily basis.

      Mike - 2011-05-26 15:18

      @Arno doesn't help argueing with a raghead they will always be the ouppy that got pissed on its in there nature to moan bitch and complain about everything. Just read about it in the USA cair are more in courts about bs than any other organisation.

  • WATCHMAN - 2011-05-26 11:01

    US Congress sides with Netanyahu over Obama Wednesday, May 25, 2011 | Ryan Jones Israel Today Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's speech before the US Congress on Tuesday was seen by most Israelis as a resounding success, and as a rejection of President Barack Obama's policy speeches over the previous few days. Speaking before a joint gathering of the House of Representatives and Senate, Netanyahu reiterated that Israel will not return to its 1967 borders, as Obama had insisted it must do for the sake of peace. The Israeli leader also adamantly restated Israel's position that Jerusalem must not be divided. Netanyahu's strong statements won no fewer than 29 rounds of applause (26 of them standing ovations) from the lawmakers, despite the fact that he was seen to be defying the Americans' own president. Writing for Foreign Policy Magazine, analyst Michael Cohen noted that "the idea that Congress would openly side with a foreign leader against the president of the United States seems too far-fetched to believe. Remarkably, however, something not dissimilar happened in Washington Tuesday." Cohen said congressional leaders, both Republican and Democrat, had consciously provided Netanyahu with the most visible of public podiums from which to rebutt Obama's peace policies. In the end, Netanyahu said nothing new in his congressional speech. Rather, he reminded the American government - the primary driving force behind the Middle East peace process - why a final status peace deal has yet to be signed - namely, because the Palestinians continue to seek Israel's ultimate demise and are teaching their children to hate the Jews. Israeli cabinet secertary Zvi Hauser told Israel Radio that what the speech also did was put the ball firmly in the Palestinians' court. "Ninety percent of the conflict will be resolved" if Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas simply recogizes Israel as the Jewish state, Hauser noted, echoing Netanyahu's own demands. Netanyahu's political opponents to the left of Israel's political spectrum were less pleased. Many Israelis wrongly believe that America's political system is like their own, and so become needlessly concerend that US aid to Israel is being endangered when Netanyahu plays Congress against the White House. They do not understand that only Congress can permanently cancel US aid to Israel. The Palestinian leadership responded predictably by saying Netanyahu's speech was a "declaration of war."

  • WATCHMAN - 2011-05-26 11:01

    Canada also backs Israel over Obama Wednesday, May 25, 2011 | Ryan Jones Israel Today Israel found support in resisting US President Barack Obama's dangerous peace policies not only in the US Congress, but also in America's northern neighbor, Canada. On Monday, Canadian officials told Ottawa's Globe and Mail newspaper that Obama's adoption of the Arab position that peace must be based on the 1967 borders was out of place. "Both the Israelis and the Palestinians have to decide on their bottom lines, which the Israelis have said will not include a return to the 1967 border," one official said. Earlier this month, Canada reelected Stephen Harper as its prime minister. Harper has been a staunch supporter of Israel through his previous two terms. In a speech last year, he charged that anti-Israel political sentiment was just a thin guise for anti-Semitism. Israel was reportedly a major election issue this year in Canada, and Harper's unwavering frienship toward the Jewish state is believed to have helped him achieve his most heathly margin of victory yet.

      I_Say - 2011-05-26 11:35

      and we all know how brave a country Canada is ..

      stukyster - 2011-05-26 12:15

      @I_Say: Basing your worldview on South Park is a bad idea.

      pop101 - 2011-05-26 15:14


  • Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 11:14

    Why is it that the world holds Israel to so much higher a standard than any other country? Little gets said about the numerous dictatorships and autocracies that continue to exist and oppress their people. However, when the discussion shifts to Israel's right to defend its people against enemies who call for its decimation, the world reacts in shock and disdain as if this were something they would never consider in relation to their own people. The hypocrisy is astounding.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:21

      The world holds Israel to a higher standard because Israel uses the USA,the worlds sole superpower as its proxy to conduct illegal wars

      Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 13:47

      And I assume you have hard evidence to spew such ignorant nonsense? Quite frankly amusing.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 14:08

      Mrs Shteyn, The evidence is all around us.All you need to do is open your eyes.

      Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 15:27

      What a phenomenal answer. Well done.

  • Wolraad Woltemade - 2011-05-26 11:19

    Mr. Noname - I beg to differ - Israel was promised in the Old Testament to decendants of the offspring of the "covenant" people, the Jews - i.e. Israelites and Judean decendants, not Arabs! Arabs where never part of the covenant which God made with Abraham when he said, from your seed the entire world will be blessed! Arabic nations distort this notion by saying that Ismael, the son of Haran the concubine is in fact the covenant child because he was born first, but scripture is clear, Isaac, Sarah's offspring will be the covenant... Fight as you may, but this promise to Israel will remain untill the end... "And you shall be scattered amongst the nations, but I will call you back to Israel to redeem my promise..."

      willieman - 2011-05-26 12:50

      But the Jews do not believe in what the bible says,perhaps we need to diffentiate between the Jews and Israelis

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 13:05

      @willie, You are correct.There is a difference between a jew and an israeli.An israeli can be arab or anyone,same with a jew,a jew can also be anyone,many have converted,in fact most jews today are descendents of converts to the jewish faith.Then,you get hebrew people,who can also be jews,as well as palestinians. The problem is that israelis are potraying themselves as people of the book,but its a lie.

      Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 13:48

      @willieman correction: the Jews believe in the old testament, but not the new testament.

  • CHIPPER_CHAP - 2011-05-26 11:19


      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:56

      You are obvious a racist,racist towards arabs,and yet you hate it when people hate israelis and think THEYRE wrong. You sick man.

      John - 2011-05-26 13:14

      Viva Israel Viva!

  • Common_Sense - 2011-05-26 11:43

    In principal withdrawing to the 1967 borders sounds like the admirable thing to do but that assumes your threat is an admirable enemy. The Palestinians hardly are. Firstly they practically invented terrorism and think nothing of killing innocent people to better their cause. Secondly they are constantly, on a daily basis, firing rockets into Israel indiscriminately. This while they are simultaneously trying to negotiate a peace treaty and ask the Israelies to make concessions. Thirdly they don't even recognise Israel as a country so how on earth can they be asking Israel for anything? I sympathise with the average Palestinian who is in a terrible situation because of the hard line extremists who spoil it for all but unfortunately Palestine is one exception where the extremists are a majority rather than a minority. I'm always open to negotiation but when your people don't recognise the value of their own life and are prepared to use it to kill my family who have nothing to do with politics, that's when I close the negotiating table.

      John - 2011-05-26 13:33

      Through long and bitter experience the Israelis know that the Palestinians are devious, lying, dishonest, backward, untrustworthy, cowardly, double-dealing, uncivilized and barbaric. How can anyone have meaningful negotiations with these people? They should just get done with it and nuke them all. They would be doing the world a big favour by solving the terrorist problem for good.

  • Saul4Israel - 2011-05-26 11:50

    Question: Why can't Israel just withdraw to its pre-1967 borders and put an end to the present conflict? Answer: The present conflict between Israel and the Arabs has absolutely nothing to do with the 1967 occupation. Consider the following facts: 1) The Palestinian Liberation Organization, known today as The Palestinian Authority, was founded in 1964 at a time when the "occupied territories" were under Jordanian control. There was not one Jewish settlement in the territories, nor any Jewish "occupation." Yet the charter of the PLO from 1964 till this very day states as its goal "the destruction of Israel."   2) What compelled Israel in 1967 to capture the territories? Five Arab countries-Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iraq and Lebanon joined by Saudi Arabia-contrived a plan to annihilate Israel and "drive the Jews into the sea." Israel fought back and won the war, including the territories from which they were attacked.   Israel never sought to occupy the West Bank, East Jerusalem, the Golan Heights, or Gaza. The war which brought about the "occupation" was thrust upon Israel. Yet this crucial point is almost never conveyed in the international and American press. Keep in mind that in 1967 the Arabs controlled 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represented less than one-tenth of 1 percent of the land mass. But even that was too much for the Arabs. They wanted it all. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough. 3) During the summer of 2000 at Camp David, Yasser Arafat was offered by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak 98 percent of the "occupied territories" and a first time ever Palestinian state with its capital in East Jerusalem. Arafat rejected the Israeli offer and initiated 20 months of bloodshed in Israel. Arafat pocketed every Israeli concession, turned his territory into an armed camp and then launched a vicious terror war that has lasted more than three years and killed more than 1,000 Israelis. 4) In the summer of 2005, Israel withdrew completely from Gaza, which it obtained in the 1967 war. Not even on an inch of land remained under Israeli occupation. The then Prime Minister Ariel Sharon believed that with not a single Jew left in Gaza and with the Israeli occupation over, the Arabs living there would now be driven to create a functioning state, and security would increase for both sides. Alas, the exact opposite occurred. Hamas swept into Gaza and turned it into a terrorist infrastructure, with a clear objective: to destroy Israel. The result was increased rocket attacks from unoccupied Gaza targeting Israeli civilians on a daily basis. The widespread notion that the murder of Jews in Israel has anything to do with the "occupied territories" is a myth. The territories are merely being used as a justification to exterminate Jews and destroy their land. Question: What about the moral injustice of occupation? How could Israel hold on to the homeland of another nation, the Palestinian nation? Answer: To call Israel occupiers of the West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem is akin to calling the U.S. occupiers of New Jersey. First and foremost, the Bible-a book embraced by billions of Muslims and Christians as the word of G-d-states clearly that the entire country, including the West Bank, Gaza and Jerusalem, is G-d's eternal gift to the Jewish people. Read the Bible and draw your own conclusion. The American people are a moral people who bow their heads before truth. It is about time that Jews begin stating the truth without shame: "Israel is occupying nothing but its own land; the Creator and Master of the entire world gave this land to the Jews." Second, the entire concept of a "Palestinian people fighting for their ancient homeland occupied by the Jews," is nothing short of a lie, a myth that has become an accepted truth in the American press. Let us reflect on some history: Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., 2,000 years before the birth of Islam. Forty years later, in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews conquered Eretz Israel and enjoyed dominion over the land for a thousand years. Even after the Babylonians and then the Romans put an end to the Jewish sovereignty, Jews continued to reside there throughout all of their history. In short, the Jews have had a continuous presence in the land of Israel for the past 3,300 years. What about the "Palestinian people"? Israel did not seize the West Bank and Old Jerusalem from a "Palestinian nation." Such a nation never existed in the history of mankind. Israel captured these territories from Jordan's King Hussein and the Gaza Strip from Egypt after they declared war against the Jewish state. It was only in 1967, following the Six-day War that Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a "Palestinian people." One can't help but wonder why all these Palestinians suddenly discovered their national identity after Israel won the war but not during the "Jordanian occupation"? The answer to this enigma is that there has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are regular Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, Egyptians, etc., who have all lived for hundreds of years under Turkish rule, and then, after World War I, under British rule. There is no language known as Palestinian. T here is no distinct Palestinian culture. There is no such an entity as a "Palestinian people." The first time the name Palestine was used was in 70 C.E. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. This region was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, after World War I, by the British. (The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.) Mark Twain took a tour of Palestine in 1867. This is how he described that land: "A desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given over wholly to weeds. A silent, mournful expanse. We never saw a human being on the whole route. There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." Where was this great Palestinian nation? It did not exist. It was not there. Palestine was a region under the control of Turkey. Many people are unaware that Saudi Arabia was not created until 1913, Lebanon until 1920. Iraq did not exist as a nation until 1932, Syria until 1941. The borders of Jordan were established in 1946 and Kuwait in 1961. To state that Israel "robbed" the Palestinian people from their homeland is simply not true.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 11:57

      Well then why did the balfour decleration create an israeli state inside of british palestine? To whom was the remainder left to? To palestinians of course.Theft of palestinian land takes place as we speak/type.

      pop101 - 2011-05-26 12:15

      Mr. No name: I think you are a bit confused by the fact that the land was known as "Palestine". That doesn't mean that there were only Palestinians. Just like there are not only Israelis in Israel, but also Arabs.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 12:23

      @pop101, No confusion from my part.before 1948,arabs and jews were living in relative peace,and today,these palestinians are the ones that have to pay the price for the holocaust.

      Saul4Israel - 2011-05-26 12:39

      you say that Jews and Muslims lived in relative peace? REALLY, and the poor innocent palestinians suffer because of the holocaust? Well they should suffer - The Palestinian Leader el Husseini Planed with Hitler "The Final Solution" of the Jews of Palestine it's there for anyone that cares to look. and peace - what RUBBISH - the arab thugs would attack and kill Jews in the 1920s and 1930s - what occupation was the problem then?

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 12:56

      @Saul4Israel, Yeah we all know about the Mufti,but those were extremists,and on the fringes of palestinian society.You cannot hold anyone including palestinian kids responsible for what a handful of their forefathers partook in. I urge you to turn to Jesus,because Jesus taught us how to forgive people,and Jesus is absent from Judaism.I cannot believe that u said that they should suffer.Your statement is evil and serves no purpose other than to continue this vicious cycle of Israeli on Palestinian oppression. Pick up the new testament and build a relationship with Jesus

      Carl Muller - 2011-05-26 13:02

      The rest of Palestine was given to the Jordanian king because he was pro-British....

      sherazaad.sylvester - 2011-05-26 13:36

      What the Isrealis are doing to the palestian muslims,christians and jews is horrific. Wheather the land is theirs or not, they are committing human rights violations. And the Jews did not reach the promise land because they did not obey The LORD's commandments. So now they will rape and pillage in order to take what they feel is their birth right.

      Saul4Israel - 2011-05-26 13:39

      To the person that wants me to return to Jesus :) I think you are very confused. Yes I am full of HATE to people that say that Hitler had the "right idea". If you think that makes me "hate filled" I guess you are partly right, and nothing about Jesus has anything to do with that!

      John - 2011-05-26 13:40

      @SAUL4ISRAEL Thank you for an excellent and accurate summary of the TRUE situation. It's long, but oh so worth it.

      Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 13:54

      @sherazaad.sylvester I assume you have some evidence to back up your baseless allegations? If not, it might serve you well to learn that people will not take you seriously if you are incapable of adding intelligent thought to such debates.

      Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 13:55

      @kubs Terrible thing what jealousy can do to a person. Inferiority complex?

      sherazaad.sylvester - 2011-05-26 14:17

      @amystein. Insulting my intelligence has nothing to do with this debate. We are all entitled to an opinion wheather you agree with it or not, and if people take me seriously is my problem not yours.PEACE OUT!!!!

      Roman Moroni - 2011-05-27 09:16

      Thank you Saul, a good read.

  • Vaal Donkie - 2011-05-26 12:46

    Unless you are A jew or living in Israel, you should really keep your mouth shut about what they should or shouldn't do to defend themselves.

      2002 - 2011-05-26 13:00

      The world will be a better place to live in without devils like you. One can alread tell you are a bitter being. I don't have to be a Jew or Arabic to comment about what is happening over there,

      Vaal Donkie - 2011-05-26 13:25

      And they accuse ME of being a nazi-sympathiser.

      Amy Stein - 2011-05-26 14:08

      Great those countries' economies crash.

  • Truthseeker2 - 2011-05-26 12:48

    The current state of Israel has been created by the forces of the AntiChrist. The AntiChrist/False Messiah will attempt to rule the world from where the true Messiah Jesus will rule from which is the Holy Land with its capital as Jerusalem. Israel will soon take over from the US as the undisputed superpower in the world. The AntiChrist world order, spearheaded by the Zionists, have been working towards this objective for the last number of centuries. The goal of the endless wars (on the military, economic and social fronts) that the Anglo-American empire have been engaging in is to eliminate all resistance to the domination of the AntiChrist world order and the eventual rule of the AntiChrist from Israel. The key characteristic of the AntiChrist world order is the inversion of appearance and reality - what is actually false will be made to look as true and vice versa. This is clearly apparent when one considers the endless lies (whitewashed as truths) that are spewn out by the Zionist controlled mainstream media. Anybody with common sense and some semblance of humanity in them will not be foolish enough to support the current imposter state of Israel and its patrons for such support is sure to lead to their inevitable destruction. The second coming of Jesus though is probably on the horizon so the biting oppression that the world is currently facing will come to an end soon, by the will of God.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 13:00

      Well said.If we meet, a bottle of johnny walker blue has your name on it.

      Carl Muller - 2011-05-26 13:03

      You are a false prophet....

      Worsie_Se_Pa - 2011-05-26 13:14

      Dear Truthseeker2, it's a good idea not to open a drink before 5pm...

      Common_Sense - 2011-05-26 14:28

      It's incredible to think there are actually people in this world that dream this rubbish up. What planet do you live on?

      Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:12

      Who Controls the United States Federal Reserve System?? Board of Governors: Ben S. Bernanke(Jew) – Chairman Donald L. Kohn(Jew) – Vice Chairman Kevin M. Warsh(Jew Wife: Jane Lauder) Elizabeth A. Duke(White European) Daniel K. Tarullo(White European) Federal Reserve District Banks: Eric S. Rosengren(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Boston William C. Dudley(White European) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of New York Charles I. Plosser(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia Sandra Pianalto(White European) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland Jeffrey M. Lacker(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond Dennis P. Lockhart(White European) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta Charles L. Evans(White European) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago James B. Bullard(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis Gary H. Stern(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis Thomas M. Hoenig(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City Richard W. Fisher(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas Janet L. Yellen(Jew) – President, Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco Of the five(5) members of the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, three(3) are Jews or have Jewish spouses. — Who Controls the U.S. Treasury Department? Timothy F. Geithner(Jew) – Secretary of the Treasury Neal S. Wolin(Jew) – Deputy Secretary of the Treasury Rosie Rios(Hispanic) – Treasurer of the United States Stuart A. Levey(Jew) – Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence Alan Krueger(Jew) – Assistant Secretary for Economic Policy Michael S. Barr(Jew) – Assistant Secretary for Financial Institutions David S. Cohen(Jew) – Assistant Secretary for Terrorist Financing Herbert M. Allison, Jr.(White European) – Assistant Secretary for Financial Stability and Counselor to the Secretary Kim N. Wallace(Black) – Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Legislative Affairs Daniel Tangherlini(White European) – Assistant Secretary of the Treasury for Management, Chief Financial Officer, and Chief Performance Officer George W. Madison(Mulatto) – General Counsel, U.S. Department of the Treasury Of the eleven(11) top officials in the U.S. Treasury Department, six(6) are Jews. — Who Controls U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner? Timothy Geithner(Jew) – Secretary of the Treasury Mark Patterson(White European) – Chief of Staff, Counselor to the Secretary Matthew Kabaker(Jew) – Deputy Assistant Secretary, Counselor to the Secretary Lewis Alexander(Jew) – Counselor to the Secretary Lee Sachs(Jew) – Counselor to the Secretary Jake Siewert(Jew) – Counselor to the Secretary Gene Sperling(Jew) – Counselor to the Secretary Of the six(6) counselors to U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, five(5) are Jews. — Who Controls the United States Economy? Benjamin Shalom Bernanke(Jew) – Chairman, Board of Governors, Federal Reserve System Donald L. Kohn(Jew) – Vice Chairman, Board of Governors, Federal Reserve System Stephen Friedman(Jew) – Chairman, Board of Directors, Federal Reserve Bank of New York Timothy F. Geithner(Jew) – Secretary, United States Department of the Treasury Barney Frank(Jew) – Chairman, United States House Committee on Financial Services Lawrence H. Summers(Jew) – Chairman, National Economic Council Christina D. Romer(Jew Husband: David H. Romer) – Chairman, Council of Economic Advisers Paul A. Volcker(Jew) – Chairman, Economic Recovery Advisory Board Steven L. Rattner(Jew) – Director, Presidential Task Force on the Auto Industry Kenneth R. Feinberg(Jew) – Special Master for Compensation, U.S. Treasury Department Jared Bernstein(Jew) – Chief Economist and Economic Policy Adviser, Vice President Peter R. Orszag(Jew) – Director, Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Douglas W. Elmendorf(Jew) – Director, Congressional Budget Office (CBO) Douglas H. Shulman(Jew) – Commissioner, Internal Revenue Service (IRS) Jon D. Leibowitz(Jew) – Chairman, Federal Trade Commission (FTC) Sheila C. Bair(Jew) – Chairman, Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC) John E. Bowman(Jew) – Director, Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS) Karen G. Mills(Jew) – Administrator, Small Business Administration (SBA) Mary L. Schapiro(Jew) – Chairman, Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Gary G. Gensler(Jew) – Chairman, Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) Daniel J. Roth(Jew) – President and Chief Executive Officer, National Futures Association (NFA) Duncan L. Niederauer(Jew) – Chief Executive Officer & Director, NYSE Euronext Robert Greifeld(Jew) – Chief Executive Officer, NASDAQ OMX Group, Inc. Lloyd C. Blankfein(Jew) – Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Goldman Sachs Group, Inc. Who Controls Goldman Sachs? Executive Officers: Lloyd C. Blankfein(Jew) – Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer Gary D. Cohn(Jew) – President and Chief Operating Officer John S. Weinberg(Jew) – Vice Chairman J. Michael Evans(White European) – Vice Chairman Michael S. Sherwood(White European) – Vice Chairman David A. Viniar(Jew) – Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer Gregory K. Palm(White European) – Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary of the Corporation Esta E. Stecher(Jew) – Executive Vice President, General Counsel and Secretary of the Corporation Alan M. Cohen(Jew) – Executive Vice President and Global Head of Compliance Board of Directors: Lloyd C. Blankfein(Jew) – Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Gary D. Cohn(Jew) – President and Chief Operating Officer John H. Bryan(White European) – Director Claes Dahlbäck(Jew) – Director Stephen Friedman(Jew) – Director William W. George(White European) – Director Rajat K. Gupta(Indian) – Director James A. Johnson(Jew Wife: Maxine Isaacs) – Director Lois D. Juliber(Jew) – Director Lakshmi N. Mittal(Indian) – Director James J. Schiro(Jew) – Director Ruth J. Simmons(Black) – Director Management Committee: Lloyd C. Blankfein(Jew) Gary D. Cohn(Jew) John S. Weinberg(Jew) J. Michael Evans(White European) Michael S. Sherwood(White European) Kevin W. Kennedy(White European) Richard A. Friedman(Jew) Timothy J. O’Neill(White European) Gregory K. Palm(White European) Masanori Mochida(Japanese) David A. Viniar(Jew) Christopher A. Cole(Jew) Esta E. Stecher(Jew) David B. Heller(Jew) Marc A. Spilker(Jew) Richard J. Gnodde(Jew) Richard M. Ruzika(Jew) Yoel Zaoui(Jew) Gordon E. Dyal(White European) David M. Solomon(Jew) Edith W. Cooper(Mulatto) Isabelle Ealet(White European) Edward K. Eisler(Jew) Gwen R. Libstag(Jew) John F.W. Rogers(White European) Pablo J. Salame(Arab) Donald R. Mullen(White European) Harvey M. Schwartz(Jew) Alan M. Cohen(Jew) Of the nine(9) Goldman Sachs executive officers, six(6) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 67%. Of the twelve(12) members of the Goldman Sachs board of directors, seven(7) are Jews or have Jewish spouses. This is a numerical representation of 58%. Of the twenty-nine(29) members of the Goldman Sachs management committee, seventeen(17) are Jews. This is a numerical representation of 59%. Jews are approximately 2% of the United States population. This means that Jews are over-represented among the Goldman Sachs executive officers by a factor of 33.5 times, or 3,350 percent, over-represented on the Goldman Sachs board of directors by a factor of 29 times, or 2,900 percent, and over-represented on the Goldman Sachs management committee by a factor of 29.5 times, or 2,950 percent. You must ask yourself how such an incredibly small and extremely unrepresentative minority ethnic group that only represents 2% of the American population could so completely dominate the world’s most powerful and influential investment bank.

  • Vaal Donkie - 2011-05-26 12:48

    What the hell is a "palestinian"?

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 12:59

      A palestinian is a person that was born in palestine.They can be of arab descent as well as of hebrew descent,whereas most jews today are not of middle eastern descent,but of asian descent

      Vaal Donkie - 2011-05-26 13:26

      I see.

      Cornix - 2011-05-26 14:19

      Philistine /'f?l?st??n/? ?noun 1 a member of a non-Semitic people of ancient Palestine who came into conflict with the Israelites. 2 (philistine) a person who is hostile or indifferent to culture and the arts.

      Cornix - 2011-05-26 14:20

      Jews, of Asian descent? Are you kidding me?

      pop101 - 2011-05-26 14:55

      Cornix, don't is some theory some anti-Israel guy sucked out his thumb. I've read about it, just can't remember the source. And it is not suppose to say Asian, I think it should say Turkey.

  • willieman - 2011-05-26 12:55

    The Jews know better than any one in this world.The PAIN of GENOCIDE.i STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND HOW CAN THEY TREAT PALISTINIANS IN THIS WAY. The solution between the two nations lies in Washington

      Zanu - 2011-05-27 07:41

      Israel treats an enemy better than any other country on the face of the earth. Any other nation would of wiped-out their enemy that is trying to kill them!! Only Israel tries to live with their enemy buy spending on security ie building a huge wall around themselves" The US, China, Australia, Brazil, France, Turkey all would wipe out another nation if for 63 years they were facing terror and the threat of annihilation. In fact Turkey has already wiped out the Kurds and Armenians (not surprising). The Palestinian problem is as such because the Jews who went through the holocaust can’t find it in them to finish off the Palestinians as any other nation would of done years ago (ie the stronger party in the war) Israeli self defence is seen as Israeli aggression only by racists such as yourself willieman. FACT

      Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:13

      In Washington? You must be mad. Washington and the money of the world is run by Jews.

  • sampie mariano - 2011-05-26 12:59

    To all Muslims please read your Qur'an (The land was put aside for the Jews your Qur'an says so) The Qur'an relates the words by which Moses ordered the Israelites to conquer the Land:"And [remember] when Moses said to his people: 'O my people, call in remembrance the favour of God unto you, when he produced prophets among you, made you kings, and gave to you what He had not given to any other among the peoples. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned unto you, and turn not back ignominiously, for then will ye be overthrown, to your own ruin.'" [Qur'an 5:20-21] Moreover - and those who try to use Islam as a weapon against Israel always conveniently ignore this point - the Holy Qur'an explicitly refers to the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel before the Last Judgment - where it says: "And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd.'" [Qur'an 17:104]

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 13:08

      The bible and Koran also states that the land of Israel was taken away from the Jews because they sinned,and that the 2nd gathering of israel aleady took place 500 years before Christ. Bet u conveniently decided not to read that part hey? LOL

      sampie mariano - 2011-05-26 13:21

      Did you not read the latter part of my message. That happened in 1948 were you asleep or just blinded by the hatred the Qur'an spews towards Jews and Christians and all other religions.

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 14:27

      It happened 500 years before Christ and thats a fact.Most Jews today are of Asian Khazar origin and therefore have no historic claim to land in Israel,thats also a fact. Ultra Orthodox jews dont recognise the state of israel and believe its a heresy,so there u have it. Its all FACTS. Israel will die one day

      sherazaad.sylvester - 2011-05-26 14:28

      The quraan does not spew hatred< but you are also entitled to your opinion on that matter. All I say is please do not discriminate against all us muslims. We are not all hate filled terrorists. We should all be free to choose a religion to practice without being persicuted. I do not agree or defend terrorists and hate is not my belief.

      Zee - 2011-05-26 14:54

      Where is the spewing hatred Sampie? Also, if my God "promised" me the land on which your house is built, can I come and move in and kick you out? Is that reasonable?

      sampie mariano - 2011-05-26 15:00

      To my fellow Muslim friends please extend me the curtousy that I extended you by quoting from reputable sources namely your Qur'an don't make statement and you don't back it up with proof. As for Sherazaad.Sylvester please read the following (You are not persecuted look at your Qur'an and see who is the persecuted ones) The following are only some of the verses in the Qur'an that can and have been used in the history of Islam in support of violence in the name of God and the glories of martyrdom in a holy war. 2:190-193 "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ..." 2:216 "Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth and ye know not." 2:224 "Then fight in the cause of God and know that God heareth and knoweth all things." 3:157-158 "And if ye are slain or die in the way of God, forgiveness and mercy from God are far better than all they could amass. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto God that ye are brought together." 3:169 "Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay, they live finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord." 3:195 "... Those who have ... fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of God ..." 4:101 "... For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies." 4:74, 75 "Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan." 4:89 "They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them…"

      Zee - 2011-05-26 15:11

      My fellow Sampie: You clearly got the edited version - your first point is severely distorted, below is the full verse: "Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and let there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression. The prohibited month for the prohibited month,- and so for all things prohibited,- there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, Transgress ye likewise against him. But fear God, and know that God is with those who restrain themselves." I would clarify all of the others too, but it would take me forever and I have to work :/

      sampie mariano - 2011-05-26 15:48

      Please do we are waiting

      sampie mariano - 2011-05-26 16:02

      Dude this what the Qur'an says. I'm quoting from Surat Al-Baqarah (The Cow) - ???? ?????? ??????????? ??? ??????? ??????? ????????? ???????????????? ????? ?????????? ? ????? ??????? ??? ??????? ?????????????? Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors. 2:191 ?????????????? ?????? ??????????????? ?????????????? ????? ?????? ????????????? ? ????????????? ??????? ???? ????????? ? ????? ?????????????? ????? ??????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????????????? ????? ? ????? ???????????? ?????????????? ? ????????? ??????? ????????????? Sahih International And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers. 2:192 ?????? ????????? ??????? ??????? ??????? ???????? Sahih International And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. 2:193 ?????????????? ??????? ??? ??????? ???????? ????????? ???????? ??????? ? ?????? ????????? ????? ????????? ?????? ????? ????????????? Sahih International Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

      Zee - 2011-05-26 16:03

      @sampie - Muslims are not allowed to ever go on the offensive. You are allowed to fight back, but never allowed to start. The rules of engagement in Islam are highly detailed, I will try and post them here somewhere when i find them. Yes, it's a pity some individuals use religion as a cover up for their own agendas, but if you read the Quran, and all of it, you will understand that Islam does NOT preach violence, no matter how much these extremists (Al Qaeda etc) try to insinuate that it does. Ps. I'm interested to know what you thought of the full verse once you had read it in it's entirety?

      sardonicus - 2011-05-26 16:56

      Sampie, given half a chance these muzzies will wipe out all 'Kaafirs' as they like to call us behind our backs. ZEE: While your current flavour of Islam (The South African Indian or Malay sort) does not call for you to take up arms in South Africa right now, I can betcha, the goal of Islam is world domination! And that is what makes Islam public enemy no 1.

      sardonicus - 2011-05-26 16:59

      Oh ja, I forgot to mention that the translations provided by ZEE is the politically correct version (ironically quraan is supposed to be consistent) one wonders why translaters would change unbelievers into transgressors which is not the SAME thing! Look to history, the great Fatah, the crusades and so on to see what fate befalls the infidel. Slavery for your women and children, all the men shall be slain.

      Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:15

      @sherazaad.sylvester: Qran does not spew hate?? You are a liar, some of us actually read...

  • Carl Muller - 2011-05-26 13:07

    Dear Helen: From One American Lebanese Journalist To another… With a great deal of disappointment I watched your interview, replayed over and over on television, in which you said that Jews should “go back home to Poland and Germany.” I find it both appalling and unsettling that someone with your level of journalistic accomplishment would lack a basic knowledge of Middle Eastern history. So please allow me to make the case as to why Israel has a historical, legal and moral right to exist as a Jewish state in the Middle East. According to the Arab-Palestinian-Muslim narrative, Israel is an alien colony recently planted in the Arab world by American and European imperialism. This narrative recognizes no history prior to the arrival of the first Zionist pioneers in the 1880’s, and emphatically denies any ancient historical connection of the Jewish people to the land of Israel. This is the central lie, offered to justify uncompromising opposition to Jewish national rights. It’s almost as if they actually expect people to think the word “Israel” was invented in modern times. What is alarming is that their increasingly successful rewrite of history has taken hold in minds supposedly as informed as yours. The historical truth is carved in Egyptian stone. According to a well-known hieroglyphic inscription, the tribes of Israel were a significant, established presence in Canaan no later than 1212 BCE. There is a vast body of archaeological evidence that demonstrates the ancient Israelite/Jewish presence in Israel/Judea as far back as 925 BCE. This historical presence is verified in the ancient records of the Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Greek, Roman, Byzantine and Moslem Empires. The Arab conquest did not occur until 638 CE (AD). An exercise in elementary arithmetic reveals that the Jewish people were there eighteen and one-half centuries before the arrival of the Muslim Arabs. Despite being conquered many times, the Jewish people have had a constant, uninterrupted presence in the Land of Israel for over thirty centuries. The Arabs and Islam have been there less than fourteen centuries. It has conveniently been forgotten that the Jews and Christians were there first. Furthermore, in the thirty centuries preceding the re-establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, there have been only two periods when there was an independent, internationally recognized state in the area that now comprises Israel. Both of them were Jewish states. Even when this land was part of the Arab empire (638 CE/AD through 1099 CE/AD), there was never an independent Arab state in “Palestine,” by that name or any other. No wonder Arabs are donating millions of dollars to U.S. colleges for Middle Eastern schools of study. They have a lot of hard historical evidence to rewrite in the young minds of students, most of whom enter college with little or no knowledge of ancient Middle Eastern history. The Jewish people have a distinct national identity. Religion is only one of the unique characteristics that defines this national identity. In addition, the Jewish people have a separate and distinct language, culture and customs, with a documented history of development over the past three thousand years. The Jewish people have created a vast body of art and literature, both secular and religious, which reflects the connection of the Jewish people to the land of Israel. The Dead Sea Scrolls, written when the descendents of the Maccabees ruled an independent Judea, demonstrate that the Jewish people, both in the Holy Land and in exile all over the world, have been reading and writing secular and sectarian literature in the same distinct language for over two thousand years. In contrast, the Arabic language and culture and the Muslim religion of the Palestinians are essentially indistinguishable from the wider Arab world. Prior to the mid 1800’s there is no trace whatsoever of uniquely “Palestinian” art, literature, music, or any other manifestation of a distinct culture. If you find this hard to believe, try to think of one “Palestinian” book, or author, or artist, from the year 1300 through the year 1800. That’s a period of 500 years. There must be one book written by a “Palestinian” Arab author. There must be one painting by a “Palestinian” Arab artist. Guess what? There are none. If you still don’t believe it, ask a Palestinian nationalist or a Columbia University professor of Middle Eastern history to name one. The most honest response you will get is silence. The most likely response you will get is a lie. People can propagate lies but they cannot erase historical facts. For more historical facts about the Palestinians and how they destroyed your own country of heritage, Lebanon, and how the Israelis helped and protected the Christians during the war, I invite you to pick up a copy of my New York Times bestseller Because They Hate. It’s never too late to learn and catch up on history, even at 90.

  • Carl Muller - 2011-05-26 13:09

    Response: Jerusalem is the Jewish people's holiest city. Though both Christians and Muslims have holy sites in Jerusalem, only the Jews see the city as their sole spiritual capital. 1.The Jews are the only community that has continuously sought to maintain a presence in Jerusalem ever since King David first made it their capital 3,000 years ago.,capturing it form the Jebusites 2.Jerusalem has never been the capital of any other nation, other than the Jewish people. 3.Ancient artifacts and documents confirm Jerusalem as the ancient Israelite capital where the Holy Temple stood. 4.Even the earliest Muslim names for Jerusalem refer to it as the city of the Temple of Solomon. 5.Jerusalem is mentioned over 650 times throughout the Tanach,and numeruos times in the Brit Chadasha. It is not mentioned once in the Koran 6.Three times each day, observant Jews pray in the direction of the Temple Mount and pray for the rebuilding of the Temple; Muslims pray in the direction of Mecca.

      ResistanceLOL - 2011-05-26 13:24

      its fine keep the stolen land and make sure you are ALL in it,when G-D fufill the promess He made to the MUSLIMS =)

      Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:28

      There is just one thing you seem to miss. Jews and Israelites are not one and the same thing. What is now in Israel are a bunch of liars, who are actualy not Israelites. At best they are partly related to jews(tribe of Judah), but are at best not real a pure race. They however pretend to be this, but what they are is cleary seen from Christs own words: Woe to you, Pharisees! for you love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. This whole thing goes way deeper than most people think and I beleive even people like Obama and most other leaders have no idea of what the real threat is.

  • 2002 - 2011-05-26 13:13

    @Saul4Israel, been dirogatv won't solve a thing, state your arguement and facts, if none, then its you wasting oxygen with you biased uninformed way of reasoning.

      Saul4Israel - 2011-05-26 13:34

      I am being derogatory? by saying to someone who says Hitler had the "right idea"? this is me being biased? Are you serious? How do you suggest I respond to nazi sympathizers? should we meet for tea? GROW UP

      ?????? - 2011-05-26 14:12

      @2002, Saul has been gotten into a corner and obviously cannot debate.Im now waiting for him to label me an anti-semite,the oldest "get out of jail for free" trick there is.

      Zee - 2011-05-26 14:55

      Careful 2002 - you might be labelled an anti-semite! Oh noes!

  • Carl Muller - 2011-05-26 13:14 National Post, Saturday, July 11, 2009 The Palestinians' man in Jerusalem Robert Fulford The clouds that normally obscure events in the Middle East start to recede when Khaled Abu Toameh begins talking about the future of Palestinians and Israelis. This relationship, the key to his future life as an Israeli Arab, has been the subject of his journalism for more than two decades. What he's learned contradicts beliefs held by much of the world, and differs sharply from what we expect from someone with his background. He was in Toronto this week, talking to a few journalists. He's a Muslim-Arab, son of an Israeli-Arab father and a Palestinian-Arab mother. When he was studying at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, he went to work for Al- Fajr ( "The Dawn"), the Palestine Liberation Organization newspaper. He left when he realized it would never print anything but propaganda. Hoping to be a real journalist, he began working with foreign reporters covering Israel. Eventually, he produced TV documentaries and wrote for Britain's Sunday Times and other papers. For the last eight years, he's been the Jerusalem Post's specialist in Arab affairs. "I am an Arab Muslim and the only place I can write honestly is in a Jewish newspaper," he says. Other Arab journalists envy his freedom. He believes the so-called "peace process," begun with the Oslo Accords of 1993, has been a tragic failure and holds little promise of success. Over 16 years, the peace process has brought war -- and plenty of it. It has disillusioned both Arabs and Jews -- Arabs because they haven't acquired the independence and honest self-government they wanted, Jews because security has become more elusive than it was two decades ago. Even so, the United States and others believe the virtue of the peace process is self-evident. The Palestinians are now divided between two bloodthirsty sects -- Fatah, which holds fragile power in the West Bank, and Hamas, which controls Gaza. Their conflict has cost nearly 2,000 Palestinian lives and shows no sign of abating. At the moment, Fatah has 900 alleged Hamas operatives imprisoned in the West Bank without charge. Some of them may well be Hamas sympathizers, Abu Toameh says, some not. In any case, Fatah has arrested them mainly to show foreign governments that it is "cracking down." Fatah, of course, is considered the "moderate" Palestinian force, as opposed to radical Hamas. Abu Toameh thinks neither of them could be called moderate by any sensible Arabic speaker. Fatah makes moderate sounds in English but in Arabic sounds as anti-Semitic and anti-American as Hamas. Abu Toameh sees no moderates on either side. Both factions suppress moderate opinion wherever it raises its head, which is apparently not often. "This is not a power struggle between good guys and bad guys," he said in a recent speech. "It is a struggle between bad guys and bad guys." He wishes they were fighting over what would be best for Palestinians. "But they're only fighting over money and power." The West spends a fortune propping up Fatah, in return for its relatively benign rhetoric. But Fatah remains unpopular. West Bank Arabs take its corruption for granted and now suspect that it's controlled as well as backed by the Americans. Anyone who listens to Abu Toameh has to consider that U. S. President Barack Obama is now part of the problem. Great fortunes stolen by Fatah officials are only occasionally reported in the West. When Abu Toameh first suggested foreign journalists tell this story, he was asked by some of them if he was paid by the Jewish lobby. Other reporters explained that information on Palestinian corruption simply didn't fit into the stories their editors wanted, about Palestinians oppressed by Israelis. Most of the world believes, often with passionate intensity, that Jewish settlements on land claimed by Arabs limits the chances for peace. Abu Toameh disagrees. "I wish the settlements were the problem," he says, because it can be solved by the Israelis. If settlements were the problem, he argues, then Gaza would now be at peace. After all, the Israelis pulled out in 2005. But the result has been war -- war among the Palestinians, war with Israel. "The real obstacle to peace is not a Jew building a settlement but the failure of the Palestinians to have a government. Is there a partner on the Palestinian side for peace talks? No." What is to be done? He thinks Israel should simply wait until the Palestinians stop killing each other and create a credible political entity that can make a deal. Peace will then become possible. © 2009 The National Post Company. All rights reserved.

  • Doublepost - 2011-05-26 13:20

    Hey vis pacem para bellum!!! The only way to secure a future for your children. Learn from our mistake here in South Africa!

  • Victoria - 2011-05-26 13:22

    House of Commons... Andrew Roberts, Member Parliament I would like to speak to you today as an historian, because it seems to me that the State of Israel has packed more history into her 62 years on the planet than many other nations have in six hundred. There are many surprising things about this tiny, feisty, brave nation the size of Wales, but the most astonishing is that she has survived at all. The very day after the UN declared Israel a country in 1948, five Arab countries attacked, and she has been struggling for her right to life ever since. And that is what we are here for today, to reiterate Israel's right to self-defence, inherent in all legitimate countries. From Morocco to Afghanistan, from the Caspian Sea to Aden, the 5.25 million square miles of territory belonging to members of the Arab League is home to over 330 million people, whereas Israel covers only eight thousand square miles, and is home to seven million citizens, one-fifth of whom are Arabs. The Jews of the Holy Land are thus surrounded by hostile states 650 times their size in territory and 60 times their population, yet their last, best hope of ending two millennia of international persecution, the State of Israel has somehow survived. When during the Second World War, the island of Malta came through three terrible years of bombardment and destruction, it was rightly awarded the George Medal for bravery; today Israel should be awarded a similar decoration for defending democracy, tolerance and Western values against a murderous onslaught that has lasted twenty times as long. ; Jerusalem is the site of the Temple of Solomon and Herod. The stones of a palace erected by King David himself are even now being unearthed just outside the walls of Jerusalem. Everything that makes a nation state legitimate-- bloodshed, soil tilled, two millennia of continuous residence, international agreements ,argues for Israel's right to exist, yet that is still denied by the Arab League. For many of their governments, which are rich enough to have economically solved the Palestinian refugee problem decades ago, it is useful to have Israel as a scapegoat to divert attention from the tyranny, failure and corruption of their own regimes. The tragic truth is that it suits Arab states very well to have the Palestinians endure permanent refugee status, and whenever Israel puts forward workable solutions they have been stymied by those whose interests put the destruction of Israel before the genuine well being of the Palestinians. Both King Abdullah I of Jordan and Anwar Sadat of Egypt were assassinated when they attempted to come to some kind of accommodation with a country that most sane people now accept is not going away. "We owe to the Jews," wrote Winston Churchill in 1920, "a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all wisdom and learning put together. The Jewish contribution to finance, science, the arts, academia, commerce and industry, literature, philanthropy and politics has been astonishing relative to their tiny numbers. Although they make up less than half of one percent of the world population, between 1901 and 1950 Jews won 14% of all the Nobel Prizes awarded for Literature and Science, and between 1951 and 2000 Jews won 32% of the Nobel Prizes for Medicine, 32% for Physics, 39% for Economics and 29% for Science. This, despite so many of their greatest intellects dying in the gas chambers.” Civilization owes Judaism a debt it can never repay, and support for the right of a Jewish homeland to exist is the bare minimum we can provide. Yet we tend to treat Israel like a leper on the international scene, merely for defending herself, and threatening her with academic boycotts if she builds a separation wall that has so far reduced suicide bombings by 95% over three years. It is a disgrace that no senior member of the Royal Family has ever undertaken an official visit to Israel, as though the country is still in quarantine after more than six decades. Her Majesty the Queen has been on the throne for 57 years and in that time has undertaken 250 official visits to 129 countries, yet has not yet set foot in Israel. She has visited 14 Arab countries, so it cannot have been that she wasn't in the region. Although Prince Philip's mother, Princess Alice, is buried on the Mount of Olives because of her status as Righteous Among Gentiles, the Foreign Office ordained that his visit to his mother's grave in 1994 had to be in a private capacity only. Royal visits are one of the ways legitimacy is conferred on nations, and the Coalition Government should end the Foreign Office's de- facto boycott. After the Holocaust, the Jewish people recognized that they must have their own state, a homeland where they could forever be safe from a repetition of such horrors. Putting their trust in Western Civilization was never again going to be enough. Since then, Israel has had to fight no fewer than five major wars for her very existence. She has been on the front line in the War against Terror and has been fighting the West's battles for it, decades before 9/11 or 7/7 ever happened. Radical Islam is never going to accept the concept of an Israeli State, so the struggle is likely to continue for another sixty years, but the Jews know that that is less dangerous than entrusting their security to anyone else. Very often in Britain, especially when faced with the overwhelmingly anti-Israeli bias that is endemic in our liberal media and the BBC, we fail to ask ourselves what we would have done placed in their position? The population of the United Kingdom of 63 million is nine times that of Israel. In July 2006, to take one example at random, Hezbollah crossed the border of Lebanon into Israel and killed eight patrolmen and kidnapped two others, and that summer fired 4 000 Katyusha rockets into Israel which killed a further 43 civilians. Now, if we multiply those numbers by nine to get the British equivalent, just imagine what we would do if a terrorist organization based as close as Calais were to fire 36 000 rockets into Sussex and Kent, killing 387 British civilians, after killing 72 British servicemen in an ambush and capturing18. There is absolutely no lengths to which our Government would not go to protect British subjects under those circumstances, and quite right too. Why should Israel be expected to behave any differently? In the course of researching my latest book on the Second World War, I recently visited Auschwitz-Birkenau. Walking along a line of huts and the railway siding where their forebears had been worked and starved and beaten and frozen and gassed to death, were a group of Jewish schoolchildren, one of whom was carrying over his shoulder the Israeli flag, a blue star of David on white background. It was a profoundly moving sight, for it was the sovereign independence represented by that flag which guarantees that the obscenity of genocide which killed six million people in Auschwitz and camps like it -- will never again befall the Jewish people, to whom the rest of civilization owes so much. I said at the start that I was speaking to you as an historian, and so I say: No people in History have needed the right to self-defense and legitimacy more than the Jews of Israel, and that is what we in the Friends of Israel Initiative demand here today.

  • sherazaad.sylvester - 2011-05-26 13:47

    What happened to feedom of speach? Any negative comment made about a jew or isreali and you are called a anti-semetic racist. Then you are given a sad sob story about the holicaust and the jewish guilt kicks in. All through history people have been persecuted because of their religion. During the time of Jesus anyone cought practicing christianity was killed.It is over, life goes on. Dont live in the past.

      kubs - 2011-05-26 14:52

      @doublepost..I think ur priest abused a bit too much as a boy..ur ravings make no sense..

      Zee - 2011-05-26 15:00

      @Doublepost - you're clearly a hatred-spewing BIGOT with a severe log on his shoulder. You talk absolute trash! Back your claims up with facts? A hand is cut off of a thief if he is found guilty of theft - Muslim, Jew, Christian, it doesn't matter. And freedom of speech is freedom of speech, you don't get muslim freedom of speech, jewish freedom of speech. There is no sense or logic ion your post - just pure hatred-spewing! Hope you're proud of yourself!

      Doublepost - 2011-05-26 17:04

      @ Zee The idea of freedom speech is foreign to muslims, it doesn't go with their religion of WAR, oh sorry, I mean peace?! They cannot even handle a Danish comic over their "beloved pedophile" prophet mooohamed, the pox be upon him! Look how the death threats roll in when a little pastor in America dares to burn their holy book in a act of, you guessed it, FREE SPEECH!! They actually KILLED people in Afghanistan and threaten to carry out terror attacks on Europe, all because their holy book was burned by a lone pastor???? Is that free speech Zee?! Or am I being obtuse? Imagine if that pastor had been in a muslim country. He would have been killed and not you or any other so called "progressive liberals" or whatever you call yourselves these days, can ever tell me any differently! Their tolerance ends where it begins, the only tolerance a muslim has for a non-muslim, is as a slave! Seriously, you can love those muzzies if you like! I am with Israel on this one!

  • albird burger - 2011-05-26 16:12

    why the hell do the world care about that shitty piece of earth... its dry dusty and full of shitty people. build a wall around them and who ever comes out alive in a 100 years get to stay there...

  • adriaan - 2011-05-26 16:27

    Shame still fighting over this small piece of land because some dude had dreams thousand of years ago, anyhow, the jews must just take a step back a few years, they created a man called Hitler, maybe you are creating the next one as we speak, every story has 2 sides, yeah, our jewish brothers arent angels, neither are our arab brothers

      sardonicus - 2011-05-26 16:51

      Right on!

  • sardonicus - 2011-05-26 16:48

    When the human race realizes that their religions are nothing but devices to divide people and cause wars, like the Arabs and Israelis, over some old guy named Abraham, who may or may not have lived in the late Bronze Age, whom some 'god' promised the land to. Israel is a sub culture of Canaanites, the difference was Salem as it was known during Melchedezek's time was dedicated to a god called El Elyon God the highest. Abe adopted this god. Other cities of course paid homage to other gods. If we look closer at E-Elyon, we realise that he is the same unholy presence as Allah and YH*H. So actually the land belongs to both, but you know sometimes brothers wipe each other out for their inheritance. Heck princes were happy their brothers died so they could inherit the crown through history. This is typically the case of Israel and Palestein, each branch of Abe's family will wipe each other out. Seems Israel is hell bent on destroying all other branches of Abe's lineage, like they did with their kin the Medianites. Essentially this unholy presence is a malevolent force that gives his devotees reason to kill each other and we can blame it on organised religion and then resign themselves in paradise (with or without the 72 virgins depending on whether you pray to Allah or Y**H!)

  • Zanu - 2011-05-27 06:55

    Peace could have been achieved several times in the last 60 odd years, if it was not ruined by a small number of bad leaders (Arafat) that rode the gravy train while their people suffered on Israel's self defence policy. Today Hamas/ PA are so financially rich that any advances in peace with Israel would mean an end to financial support from Iran / US, EU, World bank; respectively. Peace is dead cause cash is king.

  • Waleed - 2011-05-27 11:47

    Isreali Soldiers speak out, pointless arguing here when you can here it straight from the horses mouth:

  • Boerseun - 2011-05-28 16:02

    These town groups hate each others guts and will forever be at war. Nothing will ever stop this and it is time we all realize this. After thousand of years things are just getting worse and the only ones who smile all the way is the banker who finance these wars by robbing tax peyers of countries who get involved.

  • Cire - 2011-05-29 11:19

    Israel has an absolute right to defend itself from people who have repeated called for the total destruction of Israel - i.e. the 'liquidation' of the 'jews'. Israel WILL defend itself no matter what crypto-nazis, islamo-fascists and idiotic babbling liberals say.

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