Cameron: Religion has role in UK

2011-12-16 23:01

London - Britain's David Cameron says the UK is experiencing a "slow-motion moral collapse" reflected in England's riots - and that religion must help to offer solutions.

In a rare speech on religion on Friday, Cameron said Christian leaders, and those from other faiths, had a vital role in restoring values of responsibility, hard work, charity and compassion to British society.

Religion is "inherently involved in politics because so many political questions are moral questions", Cameron said, in Oxford in southwest England.

Unlike predecessors Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, Cameron has rarely discussed the role of religion in modern society.

He previously joked his experience of Christian faith was like the signal on a faulty radio, saying "it sort of comes and goes".

  • Pulverturm - 2011-12-16 23:29

    Christopher Hitchens who so sadly passed away today would beg to differ! Religion plays a very small role in society's moral compass. There are plenty of Christians out there and they are still raising yobs! I'm willing to be most people who participated in those riots came from a religious background!

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 04:39

      Morality without "religion" is nothing more than a set of opinions which differ from one person to the next.We may disagree with the next person but what makes them wrong? Without "religious" support, NOTHING. It creates relativity where nothing is absolutely right or absolutely wrong- no "black" and no "white"- everything is gray, aka CONFUSION. And we see the results all around us- chaos.

      Reshan - 2011-12-17 06:41

      @Dirk - I'm not sure what world you're living in but the one I'm in has priests molesting children, pastors building pyramid schemes and making millions, people raping women because they are not allowed to love who they want to, wars being fought through the ages for only one reason... Everything with religion is still gray, confusion is still all around us, all humanity has with religion is an excuse for it's self destruction

      adrien.mcguire - 2011-12-17 07:21

      I think we need to remember our own history in this country and how the NGK supported one of the greatest crimes in history.... Apartheid !! Religion , per se, is a dangerous bedfellow. Just look at the divide between the differnt religions around the world and how many people die in the name of religion. I have no problem with peoples beliefs, but I do have a problem with organised religion. These conglomorates have acheived very little but create division, death and destruction. There are some very basic needs to have a moral society and religion has no place in deciding these. It is up to every individual, every voter and every parent. Nothing more and nothing less. Keep religion out of politics and government. I challenge everyone as an individual, voter and parent to make this a better country.

      Squeegee - 2011-12-17 08:12

      Actually, most Christians would agree. True followers of Christ don't go for religion. They are far more interested in having a relationship with God AND having their lives transformed. Religion without personal change is dangerous because it is just a set of rules by which to live. However Christ followers are willing to change and be changed to that which God desires - truly moral beings.

      Jennifer - 2011-12-17 08:54

      I have seen in the UK over the last 20 years, that very few people are choosing to be Christian, the church buildings have been turned into lovely appartments, shops and club. Many are empty and schools do not allow religion to be encouraged. People who are Christian are bullied at work and school even if they don't share their faith. I don't believe it is the governments job to make people religious, (ps. @Pulverturm,~just calling oneself a Christian and popping in to a building once a week doesn't make one a Christian as much as calling oneself a doctor and popping into a hospital makes one a doctor, the kids are doing what their parents are allowing) People are making their choice in life and now perhaps the UK is missing something they used to enjoy....

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 10:17

      Hat3 D- The world I live in is the real world- its called earth and its dying because of sin. It is full of deception, lies and distortions.The "church" which you refer to is a heretic which practices more than 50 heresies.It is unquestionably the Great harlot talked of in Rev.The cross on the robe of the pope is a Maltese cross- it comes from the occult. There are many others which are false- hence my use of inverted commas with"religion" The crusaders went on their journeys of plunder, murder and rape and were "blessed" by the pope before they left Rome, and all this took place under the banner of a cross- a false one. In N-Ireland, "atheist catholics" killed "atheist protestants" in the name of "religion", yet again, false. There are many more examples.Do not go by what people say, consult the Bible to find out what a Christian is- ie spiritual death at the cross, re- birth and baptism of the Holy Spirit. If the fruit of re-birth is not there, there is no salvation and any claim to being a Christian, is false. This is not my opinion- its Gods opinion.And that is in the infallible, inerrant word of God. And I now await the attack on Gods word!

      MagdaKus - 2011-12-17 10:49

      Please be objective enough to recognize the evil that has been done in the name of atheism too- look at attrocities commited by comrade Stalin (and any number of virulent communists-violently opposed to religion, Mao, Castro, etc). Bit tricky to pin down Hitler- but he was more of an atheist than theist. Bottom line is if the humans want to do evil- they can twist any religion or ideology to justify their deeds. Much in conflict with the interpretation bulk of the followers of that faith OR ideology subscribe to...

      Andries - 2011-12-17 11:01

      Dirk: Plato saw the massive logical inconsistency in arguments like yours. It runs like this... Is something morally right because god say it is or does god say it’s right because it is right. If it is only right because god says it is, then that moral code is relative and god can have us do things that are wrong because he said it’s now right to do so. (To see if that ever happened leaf through the bible and check how often god told his people to bump of this or that people. Even the New Testament is vague on the absolute morality of this injunction.) Conversely if god tells us something is right because it morally is then he is himself constrained by that absolute moral code , then why do we need god to tell us anything? I’d rather have the latter. And good thing too because god has a habit of changing his mind as it suits him –or rather those who perpetuate his myth.

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 12:27

      Andries- You still dont get it because you think that I am talking about religion. Jesus hated religion and was crusified by the ultra religious Pharisees. I listen to God because I have absolutely no doubt about His commandments. That is baptism of the Holy Spirit- He "brands" you as His, you receive spiritual gifts, you hear His voice and all doubt goes. As I have often said, you have a better chance to convince me that the wife I have been married to for 34 yrs, does not exist, than my Lord and Saviour, Jesus. That is the consequence of baptism by the Holy Spirit.

      Reshan - 2011-12-17 12:51

      @Dirk, To say you believe more the in voices in your head than the wife standing in front of you, I can only come to one conclusion... A typical example of why religion has to fade away with time like the Greek and Egyptian gods did before. Oil, money, politics and fame that's the new religion...

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 14:42

      Hat3 D- If you have a Bible, go and read Mark 13 and 2 Tim 3:1-5. Then look around you and read the comments here. You will then not be surprised- it is exactly as it says it will be. Prophecy is being fulfilled by people without them even realizing it. Voltaire, the French philosopher, said about 200 yrs ago, that christianity would soon be part of history. Today, his house is the HO for the Bible Society. Persecution of christians will indeed intensify- Jesus said that it would be so. But in China today, where persecution is intense, there are more than 100 million Christians in the uncompromising house church movement. So, bring it on. The pretenders and the chaff will soon disappear, but the undiluted church will stand strong.

      Andries - 2011-12-17 14:51

      Dirk: Hoookay! I thought you asked a question and I endeavoured to give you a reasoned answer. But from your last post I conclude that you are unhinged and obviously only have the frailest of connections with reality. It is also blindingly clear from your self-admitted delusion that to attempt any reasonable debate with you would therefore be a fools errand. So all I can –or am willing to do- is to wish you luck for the future, you will need it, and hope you one day get the help you need.

      Andries - 2011-12-17 15:09

      Magda- Should I point out the drearily obvious fact that none of the demented dictators you list did their killing in the name of atheism. Where-as many a religious bigot has done their dirty work for the greater glory of their invisible friend. No matter how you try to slice history these simple facts bears out scrutiny time and time again. The cycloptic ideologies that were used by these crazy despots was more akin to dogmatic religion than atheism anyway. As for Hitler... well, his troops all wore a ‘god with us’ belt buckle, so I think that speaks rather volubly about the old Adolf’s leanings on that matter.

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 17:04

      Andries- People who depend on luck, are the ones who require help. Which god did Hitler believe in.?Certainly not the only Living God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Most of the Nazi insignia, were from the occult. Hitler was an admirer of Martin Luther who said of the Jews that the worst thing after satan, are the Jews and that their throats should be severed from behind their necks. Only the ones who are inspired by satan, can hate the Jews.There was also a strong bond between Hitler an the Catholic "church", a false one.

      indianajohn - 2011-12-18 03:57

      "you have a better chance to convince me that the wife I have been married to for 34 yrs, does not exist, than my Lord and Saviour, Jesus" Goodness, and you still wonder why we're not interested? You can say what you like, and you can base it on as many non-existant facts as you like, but the bottom line is, your religion needs a new PR department. You are so far removed from your target audience it's just not funny. Your statement above is a perfect example of the kind of thing that drives people AWAY from your religion. Are you right? Are you wrong? Who knows. But nobody who is not religious is ever going to read what you've said above and think, "Wow, he must be onto something." They're going to think, "This guy has lost his marbles." I have anothing against faith, but faith has never sold anything. You can't use faith to convince people because, well there's nothing really there. Not to them. To you maybe, yes, it may be HUGE, but the sooner you lot start realising that quoting the bible is a total waste of time the better. How can you use a book that comes from the very religion you're trying to defend, to defend it? You might as well try convince people that the easter bunny exists because it says so in this easter book. Get it? No other religion tries to sell itself, using itself. You want people to be interested? Live your life as well as you can and be an example for others. Get with the times. Why do people still sit on icy cold, hard wooden benches on a Sunday?

      indianajohn - 2011-12-18 04:02

      At no other point on my week do I sit on a cold, hard wooden bench and sing awful songs from a time long forgotten. This is not a fun place to be. Full stop. Now you may derive great pleasure from it, but for goodness sake please realise that without the faith you already have, there is nothing in this place for us. And you're not going to tempt any of us to stay there long enough to find this faith unless the whole thing changes. A lot of you put so much effort into your replies on these articles etc. but seriously, can you not see that quoting from the bible to the nonbelievers is utterly non-productive? Telling people that your wife is less likely to be real than something nobody has ever seen before? This stuff is NOT GOING TO WORK.

      Dirk - 2011-12-18 04:56

      You have it completely wrong. I am not trying to convince you of anything. God does not need me or you so dont make the mistake I made for 30 yrs and overrate yourself.God gives us a free choice and whatever we choose, we will account for.God said that the road will be narrow, difficult and few will enter heaven. The comments here are exactly what is said in the Bible, so, thank you again for fulfilling prophecy. Or did you expect me to use the evolution theories to "validate" the Bible?

      Nico - 2011-12-18 11:31

      I am quite sure, were Christopher to write a book today, it would be entitled: "God IS great".

      Andries - 2011-12-18 12:53

      Nico: More likely only comment would now be 'I told you so!'

      The Real Unskinny - 2011-12-18 15:21

      We have LAWS. If they were stringently applied, no one would need any further motivation to do what is right.

  • Debbi - 2011-12-16 23:29

    Oh excuse me Mr Cameron, have you seen the news re: the Catholic priests having abused THOUSANDS of children in the Netherlands and the THOUSANDS more abused across the world? And you want religion to save your country? Think again!!!

      attie - 2011-12-16 23:37

      No Paralegal I actually agree with Cameron here (and I'm an atheist). I don't think he is a very religious person, but I think he is calling on the churches to be more responsible with their messages.

      Ibhubesi - 2011-12-16 23:41

      What message Attie? It is because of religion that these people are all screwed! Does he think by piling them into churches he will also be able to manipulate his voters, much like we do here?

      Debbi - 2011-12-16 23:52

      I have no problem at all with spiritualism, good principles and morals but I do have a HUGE problem with organised religion. It is, and always has been, merely a means of controlling the masses and gaining wealth. We do not need religion to be good, decent human beings.

      fishycraig - 2011-12-17 01:30

      Couldn't agree with you more attie. As an atheist I always felt grateful to be enlightened enough to realise the whole fraud church represents. However, it does seem like "god's" sheep are acting like a bunch of goats without their weekly brainwashing.

      Kevin - 2011-12-17 04:07

      Catholics are a minor insignificant branch of Christianity thatis off the beaten track but please do not judge a religion by one group or individual.Catholics and there history of links to the mafia and there cover up of child abuse are not an advert for a moral compass but I do know when we stood up and stated that SA was a Christian country and our schools said the Lords prayer and had religious instruction there was a sense of right from wrong . This is just another thing the anc louts will need to answer for.

      Garth - 2011-12-17 09:34

      @Kevin, um, over 1 billion Catholics, out of a population of 7 billion on this planet, is not insignificant - only mohammed has more sycophants then the pope. There are more catholics than ALL other forms of christ worship on this planet added together and they have been around longer than most other forms too, circa ad 107. Your brain washing by the ppk, drk or whatever church you followed, must be a source of pride for them. Teach children to learn for themselves at school and you will have better societies.

  • Mike - 2011-12-16 23:35

    Another deluded individual who believes religion is the sole source of morality.

  • Ben - 2011-12-16 23:48

    Having seen much of Cameron I can say that for him to say this is as good as saying there is no hope left for the UK and there is nothing that can save it. He sounds painfully desperate, as he should. You can compare the country to the man who depletes his overdraft and his credit card, sells everything he has and then start worrying about where the money is going to come from. Thus he might suggest we start to pray.

      fishycraig - 2011-12-17 01:27

      You didn't mention the immigrants or their draining entitlement policies.

  • Mark - 2011-12-17 00:01

    Politics and religion have one thing in common, Mr. Cameron; both are instruments of power. Morality? You must be joking!

      fishycraig - 2011-12-17 01:25

      Morality from the heart? Don't think so. But (and as an atheist) I will buy morality for the masses by any means.

  • Saksak Motsepe - 2011-12-17 01:17

    Show me god then maybe I might accept him/it but untill then keep your religion for the confused people

      fishycraig - 2011-12-17 01:31

      Exactly! Keep the gods for the confused people. Unfortunately there are a lot of confused people out there.

      MagdaKus - 2011-12-17 10:56

      There is no proof that people who do not believe in a higher power will do the right thing! Look at Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and many others- following ideologies often violently anti-religious... Also general Franco in Spain... Anti-religion is not everything it is cracked up to be. For context- I am Catholic- and know a few atheists I either like or respect- so all I am saying is be objective, and be tolerant!

      jody.beggs - 2012-02-27 12:02

      @MagdaKus I'm willing to be as tolerant as the Catholicism was during the inquisition , the witch hunting , attacks against science like Galileo and Free mason's. Its easy to preach tolerance when your left holding the biggest stick. Damn the man.

  • Bob - 2011-12-17 01:43

    Show me a multicultural diverse society coupled with strong individually diverse religious beliefs all at close quarters and I will show you a society lacking in social obedience and in constant conflict! Britain in other screwed!

      Juan - 2011-12-17 04:16

      Well then and so are we

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 04:49

      Sure, because SA has 5-6 yrs left, before total collapse on all fronts, we are strong? You must be joking!

      keith.staniford - 2011-12-17 06:27

      And so endeth the first lesson according to Knob, sorry Bob!

      Garth - 2011-12-17 09:37

      Methinks you 3 should read bob's comment again, slowly and with a dictionary at hand.

      Bob - 2011-12-18 10:14

      So @keith.staniford Very typical, you hide behind the facade of the stained glass window indicating your faith, whilst on the other side of the window you pen insults, without giving due consideration to the content of what you deem incorrect…! We know your type…..they are called hypocritical jackasses.

  • Khangwe - 2011-12-17 01:55

    Christianity is a way of life personified by Christ Jesus. This way teaches selflessness and unconditional love for each other. Christianity is not to be judged based on an individual’ behavior who claims to be Christian, the Pope or otherwise; a Christian is seen by his/her fruits that resemble Christ. Christianity is not a set of rules even though law is important. James Cameron wants these values for his society because they lead to peace, love and prosperity in any community and ISN’T THAT WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS?

      MagdaKus - 2011-12-17 11:00

      To Atheitis- if you're going to make every Christian responsible for what every other Christian did wrong, would you say it is fair that we make you responsible for what every Atheist did wrong? Starting with Comrade Stalin, Castro, Hitler, Chairman Mao, general Franco, some chaps during the French Revolution and their followers (I could go on). Come guys- lets be objective and tolerant- what good is this mud-slinging doing aside from getting people worked up?

      Introspector - 2011-12-17 12:25

      Atheitis - I'm John from the other day's discussion. Both people you mention repented, that is at the heart of a follower of Christ. I do it daily. To the Christian repentance means "I made a mistake, I was stubborn, I caused hurt, I would like to change, please help me become more like Christ".

      Introspector - 2011-12-17 12:28

      Atheitis - regarding the troubled countries you quote, you may have missed the part where Khangwe said the benchmark is Christ and the values He taught, not any other fallible human being?

      jody.beggs - 2012-02-27 12:17

      @Introspector repenting is an easy way out for Christians. You say you repent every day , why can't you just stop sinning ? If you can sin and just repent, how is that being a better Christian ? Surely that means evil men on their death beds get a last minute reprieve if they take Jeebus into there heart ? Damn the man.

  • Dakey - 2011-12-17 02:23

    From the many comments here it seems few have actually been to the UK. As someone who lived there for many years, I returned to S.Africa because I'd rather raised my children in South Africa... and I'm not the only one choosing not to raise kids over there. The UK has recorded record emmigration statistics of people simply fed up with the place. People are beaten up in trains full of passengers, with not a soul lifting a finger to help. Ten year old kids somehow manage to father children. Abortion is at an all time high. Sexual immortality is rife. The riots are just the start.Simply put, Cameron is dead on right, there is serious moral decay in that place. For those that claim Christianity is evil, go live in a country like China or Russia where religion was banned. You would not believe what sorts of social practises are acceptable without (atleast) basic Christian boundaries. In our very own country, were a Zulu queen's slaves not burried alive when the queen died? PS, it was a Christian who actually campaigned for the abolition of slavery. It was a non-Christian who brought about the death of 6 million Jews.

      MagdaKus - 2011-12-17 11:03

      Regardless of what Hitler said- I think what he did speaks louder. Aside from sending Jews, Poles & Gypsies & others to the extermination camps- many Catholic priests perished there- their only crime being Catholic priests.

      Dakey - 2011-12-19 12:19

      @Balstrome & Atheitis. 1. Biblical slavery. You do realise slavery was THE NORM for all civilization including Rome right up until the middle ages? Hebrews were forbidden to kill slaves, force a slave to work on the Sabbath, return an escaped slave of another people who had taken refuge among the Israelites, or to slander a slave. It was common for a person to voluntarily sell oneself into slavery for a fixed period of time either to pay off debts or to get food and shelter. Israelite slaves were automatically manumitted after six years of work, and/or at the next Jubilee (occurring either every 49 or every 50 years, depending on interpretation). The irony was that Isreal set a revolutionary standard for humane treatment of slaves, they were after all slaves themselves. But thanks for distorting the truth btw.

      Dakey - 2011-12-19 12:25

      @Balstrome & Atheitis. A perfect example of ignorance. If you actually did just a little research you might have come across Hitlers REAL VIEWS on Christianity. "In his book Mein Kampf and in public speeches he often made statements which affirmed a belief in Christianity." Seems the concept of propaganda is lost on both of you. "Hitler's intimates, such as Joseph Goebbels, Albert Speer, and Martin Bormann suggest that Hitler generally had negative opinions of Christianity. It was Goebbels opinion that Hitler was "deeply religious but entirely anti-Christian." Albert Speer quotes Hitler stating, "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?" Love it when athiest distort the truth. Mussolini? Mussolini would become anti-clerical like his father. As a young man, he "proclaimed himself to be an atheist and several times tried to shock an audience by calling on God to strike him dead." He denounced socialists who were tolerant of religion, or who had their children baptized. He believed that science had proven there was no God, and that the historical Jesus was ignorant and mad.

  • graham.christensen1 - 2011-12-17 06:10

    I could not DISAGREE more with Cameron. Read The Moral Landscape by Sam Harris. Religion certainly has no positive impact on one's morals.

  • Hugh - 2011-12-17 06:14

    Maybe this is why God is allowing these things to happen in our world, so that we can turn to God again. The mess in this world is our own fault. We have chosen our own way and God is allowing us to bang our head.

      Garth - 2011-12-17 12:52

      @ Margie: The problem is, we atheists do not have to prove that god does not exist, we are not the ones that base our lives upon the tenets of its followers. You religious people on the other hand, should prove that your god exists, for then you could base your arguments on fact, as opposed to the contrived fiction that you are so fond of quoting. Men wrote the books that you follow as tenets. When Moses was sitting on the mountain smoking desert cabbage whilst wondering how to get his slovenly bunch back into line and back to work, do you think that a pair of massive hands came down clasping hammer and chisel and carved the 10 commandments into the nearest slab of dressed sandstone. Or did Moses, in a stroke of common sense think: `How do I control these b4st4rds? I know, I'll teach you, I'll show you not to melt down my ornaments and not to watch my wife whilst she bathes and not to take what is not yours and then, I'll throw in a couple of safeguards to prevent you from taking it all out on me - Thou shalt not kill.'

      mbossenger - 2011-12-17 20:40

      Hugh - strange argument - god makes us suffer so we will turn to him?

      mbossenger - 2011-12-17 20:41

      Margie - you cannot prove a negative. As the person making the positive claim that god exists, it's up tp you to provide evidence in favour of your assertion.

  • Max - 2011-12-17 06:25

    Religion is a very powerfull tool in the hands of any government. With religion you can manipulate peoples behaviour by using their parents and society's influance within the social context they are living in. Wihthin a religios society Government only needs to control the content of the religion and they have the control, almost like the ANC is doing currently with their talk of ancestor revenge.

  • Michael - 2011-12-17 06:57

    Strange how the yob culture, and the general decline of the American and English societies coincided with the removal of God, out of schools, and the "system" in general.

      adrien.mcguire - 2011-12-17 08:35

      @Michael. I think you are conveniently misusing a situation. The moral decay is not as a result of the removal of god from schools, I think you will find that there are many circumstances that have contributed to the situation we find ourselves in, eg indiscriminate immigration, the divide between the wealthy and the poor, poor management of housing and schools by governments, the proliferation of drugs, over population Poor policing The confusion between "wants and needs" created by marketing and branding The welfare states etc etc The real problem is parenting, or the lack of it. It is mischeivious to blame the lack of "god" in our society as some of the most peaceful societies are godless.

      Johncarlos ? Biza - 2011-12-17 09:01

      Strange that when god was still around, they were racist, abused women, had slaves, violently took over people's nations and started world wars. Some god that must me.

      Mthuthuzeli - 2011-12-17 10:16

      @Michael To the non-western world the decay of these two countries started long ago when they left their borders and waters. Western Civilisation, as Ghandi observed, is, like democracy, a good idea.

  • Deon - 2011-12-17 07:51

    Yip - "Opium for the masses" comes to mind!

      MagdaKus - 2011-12-17 11:06

      Well- it is not exactly as if experiments based on Marx's theory worked out any better, so any particular reason you're quoting him?

      Dirk - 2011-12-17 14:59

      Yes, under the ideologies of Marx, hundreds of millions were exterminated.

  • jaap.kotze - 2011-12-17 07:52

    Religion, no sir! The answer is in the Gospel Religion? The answer is in the Gospel.

      mbossenger - 2011-12-17 20:42

      Saying it twice doesn't make it any better

  • Mark - 2011-12-17 08:23

    A good education beats religion any day. Education opens your mind where as religion tends to close it.

  • Paul - 2011-12-17 08:53

    The good news is that you dont have to be a catholic to be a Christian, and that catholisism is a false religion anyway so we can basically disregard catholisism all together. The bad news is that we are born into imoral behaviour and there is nothing we can do to get to heaven on our own accord, however there is a way out and that comes only through, doing a 180 about turn, repenting of our sin to God (Jesus) not a priest, guru or some self professing prophet and then putting your faith in Jesus alone and obeying what the Bible teaches (New Testement) This is what being a tru Christian is, you dont even have to go to Church (a building) to be a true Christian, however it is wise to stay close to fellow true believers, check out this link for more info: Cheers!

      mbossenger - 2011-12-17 20:43

      Living Waters? How is Ray "banana man" Comfort?

  • keith.staniford - 2011-12-17 10:30

    The truth of the matter Paul is that the Catholic (Universal Church) was the FIRST Christian Church founded by St. Peter, yes Our Lord,s desciple, on the rock that was predetermined by Jesus. That was almost 2000 years ago and for more than 1500 years it was the only Christian church in existence!! Since then 1,000's of churches have sprung up all over the world, some have lasted 5 minutes and few a little longer, but the original Universal Church (Catholic) has stood the test of time and will continue to do so where others fail. Why? because the Catholic Church does not waste time "throwing stones" at other churches like you and your church do, but concentrates on it's first love Jesus Christ. What you have written is totally unchristian and false, borne out of ignorance and false teachings. May God bless you with the ability to find out the facts instead of listening to false witness.

      Dmitri - 2011-12-17 15:06

      Catholic church is not Christian. They worship Mary and get a human to intercede for their sins. Hmm Whenyou mentioned that Paul should get blessed and have the ability to find out facts etc - let mre remind you about a splinter and logs (In the bible - in case you forgot)

      anthony.weineck - 2011-12-19 03:05

      OMG, how can there still be Catholics, nevermind papists. Have you been living in a bubble? The catholic church came to Africa and told millions of catholic Africans that condoms spread AIDS. The pope was personally involved in covering-up the endemic and systematic rape of children in catholic institutions throughout the world. Tim Minchin has a great song about this:

  • Erena - 2011-12-17 10:49

    No mr Cameron IT IS NOT RELIGION that has a role, it is Christians.

      Garth - 2011-12-17 13:35

      Typical religious arrogant intolerance! What about the oldest faith, Judaism? Or the most popular faith, Islam? Cameron is correctly grouping all the faiths together in his plea for assistance.

  • geoffreywaugh - 2011-12-17 11:28

    People are basically good, to get a good person to do something truly evil, your going to need religion. Some one with more iq points than the collective group who are about to click 'dislike' said that.

  • Dmitri - 2011-12-17 13:03

    WTF - are you telling me Santa does not exist!!!!!!!! WTF

  • Andries - 2011-12-17 15:00

    I have to admit that I am somewhat puzzled by Mr Cameron’s comments. Why does he feel the need to spew such absolute tosh at this point? For a increasingly secular England –and the west – it is an ill timed and wilfully obtuse statement. If it proves anything it is simply that politicians are either out of touch with the common man or would attempt to use absolutely anything to shore up sagging popularity. If this is the sort of leadership he can provide, well then the UK and the world can do without him.

  • Heather - 2011-12-17 18:56

    The real Christian faith is grounded in Jesus sending the Holy Spirit to those who 'truly believe'. And the fruits of the Holy Spirit is: Love,joy,peace,longsuffering,kindness,goodness,faithfulness,gentleness and self control. I think that was what Cameron was meaning.

      mbossenger - 2011-12-17 20:44

      So we ignore the old testament?

      anthony.weineck - 2011-12-19 02:58

      Actually those are the fruits of deciding to be a decent human being. The first step of which is rejecting in all its forms the tyranny of moral dogma and accepting that the world is a complicated, subtle place, and our approach to it must be the same.

  • leonard.w.gray - 2011-12-17 21:59

    Atheists play no role in society's moral compass! None zero nothing!How can the belief of nothing have any moral compass?? All they do is argue all day that God doesn't exist even they have zero evidence that God does not exist. Good for you cameron, step in the right direction.

      anthony.weineck - 2011-12-19 02:56

      You are actually correct, atheism provides no moral guidance. Atheists get their morals elsewhere, from the same place most theists do unknowingly: Compassion for those around us, consideration of others, love of family, of friends, and a sense of companionship with our fellow passengers on board Spaceship Earth.

      mbossenger - 2011-12-19 10:37

      Leonard - please explain why I have no moral compass because I don't believe in some imaginary being in the sky?

  • Enlightened - 2011-12-17 22:40

    Religion has caused more wars than any other institution in history. The fact that a few loose canons with no education, moral standards or ideals need some kind of guidance...granted. but if I look at the fact that there are over 300 religions, many older than christianity and they all profess very similar "10 commandments"then it tells me that, as stated,it is a man made institution for the few to control the many.

  • Enlightened - 2011-12-17 22:46

    Dirk. Religion is the venereal desease of mankind. you are appear to be a gono cocci: one of the causes.

      Michael - 2011-12-18 09:57

      WOW....religion really has everyone the wrong or right direction? Your spirit... where is it going...? You have a spirit placed in a human body, but you will die....that is truth! Then where to and what happens then? it is appointed once for man to die then the Judgement! You will not escape from that! Not scared? The father of all lies has manipulated man since almost the inception. Man follows after his own lusts that is why satans lies find favor because you rather believe a lie than turn to the truth and it will set you free! Of what... your own sin that you so freely commit. None of us are righteous not even one. We all fall short. End of story! So think again and when you think do not think Religion or Christianity - rather go on your knees and ask forgiveness for your own evil ways - whether in thought or deed. It is easy to cast stones and who wins in the end? Satan will receive his eternal punishment and laugh or should I say, cry, swear, insult, gnashing of his teeth, fight, manipulate etc etc and also those who did not repent and turn to God and accept his offer - His unfailing Love - because no matter what you say He does care and love but it is ourselves who has "willingly" decided to follow our own deceitful ways that only leads to eternal damnation! Ask yourself - If I die where am I headed? Eternal damnation? Or should I rather ask God / Jesus and live? The decision is yours. Go for it you have nothing to lose. FACT - God loves you - his creation!

  • darren.peach - 2011-12-18 20:17

    Religion has no role to play in any scenario involving the increase in poverty. The Riots in the UK are a direct result of lack of jobs and increasing povery. This is a fundamental problem the world faces today. The rich get richer and more people are getting poorer. This guy is a British Republican.

      stevie0064 - 2011-12-19 11:01

      Yes, although I would add (to avoid future misinterpretations) that the rich are getting richer only because they know how to manage their wealth correctly. The poor get poorer because they have too many offspring.

  • anthony.weineck - 2011-12-19 02:41

    When are we going to stand up, not as a species, not as countries or political organisations, but as societies, as a collection of (mostly) self-aware, compassionate individuals, and recognise that that massive moral strides we have taken over the past two millennia are the result of our own improved moral philosophy. It's time for human society to emancipate itself from the false moral guardians of religious dogma, and recognise that we as a society are far better at determining what is good and moral than are religions. Certainly, if you pick and choose from the bible you can find those moral chapters that have been purloined from the secular classical philosophy of the greek cultures, but these are interspersed with the most horrendous biblical instructions. And I don't only mean the oft derided passage from Leviticus (foul though that book is). Jesus himself, according to the gospels, gave instructions on the proper manner to treat slaves, and the misogyny of Paul is readily apparent to anyone who bothers to read his letters for themselves. Let no one say the bible is a moral book. It is time to stop clinging to the lifeboat of easy answers. In the infancy of our society, the inarguable nature of these ideas may have kept us afloat when we couldn't swim. But now we are strong, the shore is in sight, and the lifeboat has sprung a leak.

      AntiThesis - 2011-12-19 07:36

      Anthony, this is so very true. Religion is no longer able to offer the positive moral absolutes it (and only it) once thought it did, in fact, these absolutes is its downfall. Only fundamentalists remain as the true stoics of the morals held forth in scripture. Religion is no longer able to provide properly aligned morals and ethics in a every changing and evolving modern society - which it refuses to embrace. Our morality has always been based on human experience, as well as love, compassion and solidarity, with religious rules only clouding the issue. The religious mentality is only making this worse, as per usual - to quote the recently deceased Christopher Hitchens: "Gullibility and credulity are considered undesirable qualities in every department of human life - except religion."

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