French nervous after prophet cartoons

2012-09-20 10:02

Paris - Tens of thousands of French expatriates in Muslim countries face a nervous weekend amid fears they could be swept up in a rising tide of anger over controversial depictions of Muhammad.

Protests that have left more than 30 people dead in the last week have, until now, largely been targeted at the United States, which has had to carry the can for the California-produced Innocence of Muslims film.

But French ministers fear the focus could shift to Paris's overseas outposts following a satirical weekly's publication of cartoons featuring obscene images of the founder of Islam.

Embassies, consulates, cultural centres and international French schools in around 20 Muslim countries will be closed on foreign ministry orders on Friday for fear of retaliatory violence following weekly prayers.

In Tunisia, French schools were shut down from Wednesday until next Monday after the ruling Islamists branded the cartoons a "new attack" on their religion.

The shutdown also came into force early in Egypt, where schools were to close for the weekend from Thursday.

Sold out

The moves reflect concern about the volatility of countries still reeling from the aftermath of last year's Arab Spring which has been exacerbated by last week's attack on a US consulate in Libya that left the ambassador, Christopher Stevens, and three other officials dead.

At home meanwhile, France's Socialist government faced a dilemma over how to manage the anger of the country's own four million Muslims in the wake of weekly Charlie Hebdo's publication of the cartoons.

Thousands of extra copies were due to hit newsstands on Thursday after the weekly's usual print run of 75 000 copies sold out in hours.

Ministers have criticised the timing of Charlie Hebdo's publication of the cartoons but made it clear they support the magazine's right to express its opinions however it sees fit and no matter how much offence it causes.

Critics have pointed out that the same freedom of expression does not seem to be extended to French Muslims who want to give vent to their anger over the cartoons.

Interior Minister Manuel Valls banned all protests over the Innocence of Muslims following a violent demonstration last weekend near the US embassy in Paris and has made it clear he will not sanction any mass protests over the cartoons either.


Muslims attending prayers at mosques in France on Friday will hear an appeal for calm but community leaders have also pressed the government to do more to restrict the ability of media to publish "insulting" material, arguing that incitement to religious hatred should be put on a par with race hate crimes.

The government has been forced to deploy riot police to protect Charlie Hebdo's offices, which were fire-bombed last year following the publication of an edition "guest-edited" by Muhammad that they dubbed "Sharia Hebdo".

The left-wing, libertarian weekly's editor, Stephane Charbonnier, has also been assigned police body guards, but he is unrepentant about the furore he has caused and has dismissed suggestions his timing could have been better.

"The world context will never be favourable to having a laugh at the expense of radical Islam or religion in general," he said.

"If we take account of context we will not be able to talk about anything any more, the satirical press is doomed. We're screwed."

  • christopher.shining - 2012-09-20 10:22

    Grow a sense of humour you idiots...

  • john.turner.58760608 - 2012-09-20 10:26

    These guys need to lighten up and stop being stupid. I'll bet 99.999% of Muslims have never seen the cartoons or the film and probably do not want to. With all of this hooha, I, like may others, look up the video and watched it (and it is pathetic) to see what all the fuss was about. Do you think any of us would have even the slightest inclination to look at this pathetic satire if the Muslim world had not started it protests. Also I think many muslims are hypocrites as they say the film is blasphemous to Mohammed, but blowing up each mosques, weddings, funeral etc just because they are of a different Islamic brotherhood is not

      bheki.moyo.39 - 2012-09-20 11:22

      Yah they are taking it too far,I think they should learn tolerance. Why do not they let God avenge for himself for the insults said about his prophet? No man something is amiss here

  • alex.nkosi.39 - 2012-09-20 10:36

    What damn, hypocrite and provocative westerners!, knowing that \TOO MUCH FREEDOM DESTROYS\,why don't they stop this hatred and false propaganda against muslims? The answer is quite simple for sure that they want massive explosions, suicide and killings of their own peope. I don't understand what the hell is wrong with people's mentality, if i, for instance, deny HOLUCUST in europe like ahmednajad did it i will prosecuted fot that. We hope that this provocative and hatred will stop by just realizing respect and coexistance are key things for life.

      LanfearM - 2012-09-20 11:40

      @ neutedop.opinie - they won't answer you when you raise those issue. I've tried again and again, nicely, then angrily, none of it worked. They just ignore these issues when we raise them.

      werner.coetzer.311 - 2012-09-20 11:40

      Deny the holocaust? IT HAPPENED!! theres pictures locations etc etc etc... Denying a god you dont see or there is no physical prove of on the other hand... no reason to become violent over a fairy tale

      LanfearM - 2012-09-20 11:42

      @ alex.nkosi.39 - there are only a couple of countries in Europe, such as Germany and Austria, where you will be prosecuted for denying the Holocaust and that is mainly because of their guilt trip about it. You can deny it all you want, you can revise history as it pleases you, it still won't change the truth of events. The day you Muslims take responsibility for your actions instead of blaming it on "provocation", then perhaps we can talk about tolerance and respect. Muslims do NOTHING to earn respect when they behave like this!

      alex.nkosi.39 - 2012-09-20 11:53

      Correction: neo i as a christian man have nothing to do with this conflict between muslims and western hypocites, so please don't generaize the issue, i was just expressing my viewpoint on this burning issue,in fact western capitalists are hypocrites, just because of this simple equation:anti-semetic statements=criminal and inflamotry, while islamaphobia=freedom of expression. Is that logic and rational???

      hudayfah.newman - 2012-09-20 12:35

      You do not stone woman to death? You\r\ndo not force 12 year old girls to marry\r\nmen? You do not torture woman who\r\nwant to leave their husbands? Woman\r\nhave a say in who they want to marry? . . .lol so did you also learn about islam from the 'we hate islam brigade'. I think if you want to state facts then you have to do some proper research first instead of showing us how ignorant you are about the topic at hand.

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 13:23

      @ neutedop.opinie & lanfear May peace be upon you. And I mean it with every fibre of my being. I am South African, proudly, I am muslim, proudly. I am a human being, proudly. As a human being, knowing all that our country has gone through to try to eradicate discrimination and following the true teachings of islam ( not those waroed by the media), I am disturbed firstly by the need of the producer of this film to degrade another human being, without even having a thorough knowledge of that being. I am even more disturbed by the attacks, in which innocent lives have been lost, that have been propogated by muslims in retaliation to the film. I am saddened that this is the image of islam being portrayed through media and even more saddened that even though in this 'modern' world there are so many means of seeking knowledge through reliable sources, people still gobble up and spit out the first things they pick that fit their ideologies. This is true for those extremists who carry out the attacks as well as those whose comments plague these sites. No islam does not ask of us to force 12 year old girls to marry men, nor does it ask us to torture women who leave their husbands. Ofcourse women have a say in marriage, my wife chose to marry me through no force at all. As far as stoning to death is concerned, yes there exists a ruling, but the conditions for that is very stringent and is not something that should be taken lightly and is not exclusive to women.

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 13:46

      What needs to be understood that in every race, religion and culture there are people who will hold their own views and opinions... These do not and cannot reflect on the populations at large. I work in a corporate environment where I am exposed to people from all different walks of life and not once have I ever been exposed to intolerances I have witnessed through these comments. It should also be remembered that there will always be culture infused within people that will affect the way they interpret things, forced marriages and torturing of women are most likely be attributed to culture than religion. I don't for one moment believe that what I say will change many of the reader's opinions as from what I see, some people are bent on attacking Islam as a religion. But I do hope that some will realise that it is unfair to judge people according to their race or belief system by using a minority of extremists as an example. Your intolerances is in no way different from their intolerances. I watch the world through the computer screen, and the chaos, immorality and shamelessness of the us, yes all of us, as a global society is disgraceful. How can we even say that we have progressed up until this point if we behave in the manner that we do. How many derogatory statements have been flung through these comments?

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 13:46

      I am not a perfect human being, by far, neither a perfect muslim. But maybe if we all forgot about our differences and used these energies to tackle more urging issues like poverty, than maybe, together, we can become better people, irrespective of race or religion. At the end of the day, we all want the same things from life, I assume

      neutedop.opinie - 2012-09-20 14:38

      Newman - so you did not kill South Africans. A Pakistani woman's nose was not cut off for running away from her husband. There is no forces marriages in the Middle East? That is facts - no need to study your religion to decide I do not want to be associated with people/religion who believe it is okay! Bee - hear what you say, and I know it is not all Muslims, but if you do not stand up against those people, when will it stop? Thus far only 1 South African organisation condemned it publicly (that I know of).

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 15:40

      @ neutedop.opinie\r\n \r\nWe dont believe it is okay to treat our women the way some people do. Women abuse is not only exclusive to people who happen to be muslim. Islam does not teach us to treat our women in an abusive manner, in fact, we are taught to respect and honour our women. The abuse described below is not a reflection of what islam teaches us.\r\n \r\nThe same applies for the killings of innocent people. I do not and will not condone it. The fact is that the media does not represent us, our opinions and the true essence of islam.\r\n \r\nI understand that those responsible for the attacks have done it in the name of islam but it is not truly the teachings of the Quran. Yes, the Quran does mention Jihad and so on an so forth, but in what context, and under what conditions. Even when it does,it still promotes that peace is better than violence.\r\n \r\nI came across this a few weeks back and you might find it interesting. I definately did. \r\n \r\n

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 15:45

      @ neutedop.opinie\r\n \r\nYou mentioned that due to the facts of women abuse you do not need to research islam in order for you to decide whether or not you want to associate yourself with the religion or its people. Yes those are facts, you are probably right, but it is not a fact that Islam as a belief system promotes these actions. So how can you decide to distance yourself from the religion or its people based on actions of these people.\r\n \r\nLets assume a white, Afrikaans speaking person, who happened to be a Christian, created the concept of apartheid. Wouldn’t it be absurd for me to distance myself from all white, Afrikaans speaking people with the belief that they all hold the same values. It would even be more absurd to distance myself from all Christians. Or what about the policeman who takes bribes, are all policeman corrupt? They all follow the same law.\r\n\r\nWe need to be able to detach the belief system from the people who follow it. And further understand that people are flawed by nature and will perceive things according to their whims and fancies. I understand where you coming from when you say that it wont stop if people don’t stand up and condemn it and it is frustrating for us muslims especially because by not doing so, we are being placed in a bad light. I don’t know if other organisations have made the effort of condemning it publicly or if the media failed to represent it, but what I do know is that these retaliations on innocent civilians is not condoned

      gerhard.kress.3 - 2012-09-20 16:24

      BEEB0I Do I need this atrocity in my life? I love my children far too much for that. Once again it needs 100 muslims to commit this crime. A single muslim is a quiet homosexual person. Hajis don't have balls. I guess you now understand why I am not interested in your religion.

      neutedop.opinie - 2012-09-20 16:58

      Bee, you did success in having a normal conversation, something very few people on this site can do. I think in real life we would have endless cups of coffee and conversation. I also understand that not all Muslims are like that, but the problem is that they are doing it in the same name of the religion you practice. Therefore the other millions of Muslims in the world must stand up against this. Yes, most white South Africans was racist in apartheid years (once again not all of them) but if you ask a black person who grew up in the 70's how he saw a white person, he would tell you all of them was racist. Therefore a person who kills in the name of Allah, and you pray towards that person....if the rest of your religion do not do something about it, all other persons (uniformed like me) will start painting a picture of the negatives we see/hear/read.

      hudayfah.newman - 2012-09-20 17:22

      @gerhard. Your opinion would have been justified if that really is done according to the islamic law. Again you are falling for the headline instead of verifying if that is done according to the islamic law. Nowhere in our law is it stated that u should stone a girl if she runs away with her boyfriend.

      gerhard.kress.3 - 2012-09-20 18:10

      hudayfah. Do I need this atrocity in my life? I love my children far too much for that. Once again it needs 100 muslims to commit this crime. A single muslim is a quiet homosexual person. Hajis don't have balls. I guess you now understand why I am not interested in your religion. I thought that by now you watched the clip. No need for further explanations.

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 18:21

      @Gerhard: again I would like to emphasize the point that in order to judge the belief system you need to conduct your own research on it. Thorough research I may add. Just googling and then regurgitating the bad that is portrayed is a blinded approach. I can google anything now about any topic and without a doubt find bad perceptions about it. Resorting to vulgarity through this platform, however, I doubt is a good example any parent would want to set for their kids so please spare me your thoughts on saving your kids from these atrocities. The world out there is filled with barbaric people, muslim or not, shameless people, muslim or not, terabytes of pornographic material that is just as easily accessible. Islam, in its true essence, poses no threat to your family or kids, and you would know that if you placed your ego aside and took some time to inform yourself prior to making judgments.I would suggest taking 10 minutes of your time to watch the video to the link I attached in a previous comment. It is a talk by a non-muslim woman and that might be a good start.

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 18:47

      @ neutedop.opinie\\r\\n\\r\\nI really appreciate the manner in which you have chosen to engage on this contentious issue. I understand exactly what you mean with regard to the picture being painted and it frustrates me on a daily basis. Its difficult to get the truth out especially when islam's name is bombarded through bad publicity and sensationalism. Ofcourse there are a muslims carrying out mindless attacks on innocent people which is not justified at all. There are also innocent muslims being killed on a daily basis, which don't even get half the coverage, and is carried out in te name of the 'war against terror'. It's a vicious cycle and getting to the roots of it would probably be just as redundant. Its always difficult to step out from your comfort zone and see things from a different perspective. I can tell you how unjust it seems that so many palestinians and iraqis have been killed for crimes they have not committed. And I'm sure you would have your own perspective of it. 9/11 seems where it all had starte, some would say it was a terrorist attack whilst others would argue it was a means of getting into Iraq for its oil reserves and was economically driven. We would never know what really happened. And arguing over it will never provide us with a solution for now. All I can do, is stand of for the islam I know, I believe in, the way of life that many, if they were more informed about, would recognise its practicality and beauty and not attack it the way they do. This is our way of standing up and trying to let people know of the truth, I do it on a daily basis with people I meet/work with. And it helps, in helping them understand the reality, as well as me understand how deeply misunderstood islam is. Yet, there are still people, who in the face of these comments, will totally ignore these words and refuse to take a little bit out of their time to get to the truth, but will still judge through ignorance. Yes you are right, we could sit for hours engaged in fruitful conversation which I'm sure would leave both of us more enlightened about the 'other side'. And I will even go as far as entertaining the idea as I believe that it is these conversations that will help break these boundaries and allow for a global world to become an integrated society. Only through understanding may we progress

      gerhard.kress.3 - 2012-09-20 18:48

      BEE0i You are in denial in the face of overwhelming evidence. The video is quite clear whether you like it or not. It is rather trite that you think talking to me is the solution. You should talk directly to the perpetrators of this atrocity that comes from your community. A believe system so sick, it defies any rationality. Now don't get angry, just watch the video again. 100 muslim men stoning a 19-year old girl to death. What kind of god is this arabian moongod Allah? Does he/she need human sacrifices? Mecca during the Hajj for 4 days is the biggest abbattoir in the world. They slaughter more than 750,000 animals in 4 days to be sacrificed to a moongod. Burnt to cinders. Not enough! In years past they started stampedes to kill people as human sacrifices. The world looks on!

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 19:02

      @Gerhard... Kindly refer to my previous comment with regard to researching what islam is about. Also please indulge yourself, while you at it, in researching the essence of Hajj. Your uninformed accussations and derogatory terms says much about your knowledge as well as your respect for me as a human being. It is thus ironic that you deem yourself fit to judge other people who are disrespectful to human beings- in this case the people who killed innocent civilians and also the people who stoned the girl to death. Also research under what conditions islamic laws stipulates the stoning of someone and note how stringent they are, something you would have picked in my prior comment. Your comments also lead me to believe that you did not take the time to follow the link I put up, thus solidifying my assumption that you refuse to educate yourself on the subject matter that is being discussed. I have emphasized on numerous occassions, that these are not the teachings of islam, and I have been a muslim my entire life, yet you wish to engage with me using scattered bits of information you have conveniently picked up in your mission to degrade islam.

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 19:22

      @Gerhard I would also like to clarify that those who committed these acts do not form part of my community. My community is formed by people of differenct races and religions and we get along just fine. Within my community, however, there is a tight-knit muslim community that I will be more than happy to take you to visit each and every family to experience their hospitality and get their perspective of islam. Their perception, I can guarantee you, will be no different than mine. We all come from different backgrounds and as such we will tend to have different opinions on certain aspects of life. We were meant to be different, and these differences is what makes life so amazing. And these intolerances are born only through misunderstanding. We have no excuse in this day and age to accept everything that is fed to us through propoganda and media without scrutinising the information. , if you do thorough research and engage the scholars of islam and then believe that islam is not a religion of peace, then surely I have been misguided, but I can assure you that the perception of islam that you hold so dearly to yourself is the false one. No person will ever dare google symptoms of a medical nature and then argue with a medical professor on the diagnosis, the same would apply in the engineering field or any other field for that matter, so how come we can all be experts in religious subject matter.

  • joan.darcy.9 - 2012-09-20 11:06

    Why why? Tolerance is what it is all about from all sides. If you know something is really going to upset somebody else, especially from a religious point of view, it's not worth doing. Even one life lost because of it is too many.

      LanfearM - 2012-09-20 11:55

      No, I will not give preferential treatment to a violent and intolerant religion just because they threaten us! If we give in to their absurd demands, such as special protection from the UN, etc. then where does it end? With us women forced to wear burkas? NO, they can carry on with their threats, it just makes the people mocking them and questioning their violent ways, more determined.

      Bob.Cee123 - 2012-09-20 12:19

      @ Joan - Respectfully, the people who react so violently and disproportionately to a perceived insult such as this latest movie, or some cartoons, are behaving like spoilt children throwing a tantrum....a very dangerous, deadly tantrum. Such reactions are the thin end of a wedge and if we allow them to set a precedent whereby we must walk on eggshells around their petty, irrational sensibilities, lest we arouse their wrath and suffer a violent response, then they have the world by the short and curlies and they will not relent...not these folk. They are stuck in the 7th century, both intellectually and emotionally. This cannot be tolerated. They deserve nothing less than contempt and mockery until they wake up from their self-induced regression to the dark ages. They are an impediment to the progress of this world and their mentality must be jettisoned if this world is to move onwards.

  • syedazmathullah.khaderi - 2012-09-20 11:20

    Why are the hypocrites of the West and US getting inflamed if anyone insists that there had been no holocaust? It is because the effect on them is stabbing effect. It is the same effect when they commit sacrilege of another’s faith. Why are the British and the French blocking the publication of Kate's revealing photos? It is because she wants to appear coy and wants no more than reaping a breach-of-privacy lawsuit. And encouraging Charlie Hebdo to insult Islam, well knowing that his action will provoke retaliation? It is the West that is actually involved in this insult and mayhem all across the world. Don't they swoop on protesters in anticipation, and have they not installed Google to carry on perverted scurrilous anti-Muslim activity with a seemingly uninvolved look? If they do insist on freedom of expression, then I too insist on the same and declare and express that verily there was no such thing as Holocaust in reality at all, and it is only a Western and Zionist and US figment.

      ludlowdj - 2012-09-20 11:50

      Actually the debate among western scholars has nothing to do with whether the holocaust was real of not, that is the preserve of idiots like you, The debate is around the number of Jews that were actually killed.

      jaba.kov - 2012-09-20 13:08

      did anyone even notice that the cartoon in question has both Muhammad & a religious Jew in it... funny how the Jewish community doesn’t seem too petered by the cartoon while the Muslims are up in arms... shows insecurity of one of the sides doesn’t it?

      harley.quin.334 - 2012-09-20 13:43

      Khaderi, the british are trying to stop the publications of Kate's picture by LEGAL means, not by blowing up dozens of innocent people,

  • bheki.moyo.39 - 2012-09-20 11:27

    Tolerance is very important. People should learn to let God the Almighty deal with all the insults directed to him or to the Prophets

  • ludlowdj - 2012-09-20 11:45

    Typical response of the feeble minded. Wonder how the Muslim community would feel if we start bombing their areas and families in retaliation for the killing of the South Africans by their zealots

      LanfearM - 2012-09-20 11:53

      Exactly! What if christians started bombing the Muslim communities every time another imam burns thousands of bibles? The way they do when one qur'an is burned.

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-20 13:22

      LOL... @Ludlowdj and Lanfear - which planet are you guys from... you are already bombing them, zionists and christains and the few atheists. that is why they are gatvol with you oakes. you started it.

      Ababeel Sherwani - 2012-09-20 13:49

      Muslims respect prophet Jesus[PBUH] as a prophet so why cnt Christians

      LanfearM - 2012-09-22 07:57

      @ joe.mase - who exactly are you referring to when you say "you" started it? Really? Oh yes, how can I forget the biased news of the "evil West"! And then you have the audacity to call western media biased? LOL

  • - 2012-09-20 11:56

    Perhaps they should stop mocking Islam. The repercussions are undesirable. I don't blame em for reacting the way they do. I mean, even Christians here in SA were infuriated by that Jesus is a Shangaan cartoon. If they had the guts to wrap explosives around their bodies we'd be in trouble. Bloody hypocrites!!

      LanfearM - 2012-09-20 12:13

      Yes, the christians were infuriated and complained with the proper authorities. They didn't go out and bombed innocent people to death! Who are the hypocrites? The Muslims that's who! They burn bibles, depict Jews and Christians as animals and sub-human in Islamic cartoons [google it if you don't believe me] and insult any non-Muslim as much as they want. But the moment someone dares to insult them, or burn a single qur'an, they go on the rampage, destroying and killing.

      LanfearM - 2012-09-20 13:18

      @ zubair.bhamjee - well thanks for a nice and reasoned comment without all the violence justification. Firstly, not everybody believes in the god of Abraham. Secondly, you cannot prove the "non-existence" of anything, since you cannot prove a negative. Thirdly, the biggest problems is that the majority of Muslims are silent. They don't condemn the violence and killings [except for a few] and if they are confronted they try to justify it. You are one of the few that I've seen that haven't tried to justify the violence and murder of innocents. Lastly, essentially my atheism and lack of belief will be between myself and god, if there is one. If I go to hell for it, then that is my problem too and not the problem of any living person on this earth. It is not the job of any religious person to try and convert me, with words or violence.

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-20 13:29

      @Lanfear - so tell me, is there any truth to what you have said, i.e. that the Muslims 'depict Jews and Christians as animals and sub-human'?

      BeeB0i - 2012-09-20 14:04

      @Lanfear Your generalisations are extremely insulting. First of all, Islam teaches its followers to be respectful of other religions. Secondly, as muslims we believe in the people of the book (Judaism and Christianity)and have the utmost respect for their proghets (Jesus and Moses) as well as all the other prophets. I haven't burnt any bible, or book for that matter, as knowledge is sacred, neither have I bombed anyone, let alone harm anyone in my life. How is it that you can say the muslims are doing this? As an example, in one of the articles published on News24 today, a man used the bible as justification to have sex with his daughter. Would it be fair to say that this is what the bible instructs christians to do? Is it fair to say that christians have sex with their own kids? No! This sort of rationale is completely flawed. The same can apply with the justice system. It is impractical to think that every lawyer or judge would perceive it identically no matter how explicit it may be. I am sure you have some muslim friends or acquaintances, I urge you to network with them and try to gain a better understanding on their belief systems. You so often comment about the modern world, so use it as an opportunity to come out of that caccoon and engage with people on a more personal level.

      riad.mahomed - 2012-09-20 14:11 What would be the reason for one to mock another? Is this human nature that we as human encourage the next by saying it is your right or it’s your freedom of speech to mock another without being subject to some kind of consequence? Don’t get me wrong since I totally condemn the killing of the innocents as a form of retaliation to any “just” or “unjust” cause, be it for religious, political or any cause whatsoever.

      alex.nkosi.39 - 2012-09-20 14:39

      One thing i have noticed in these comments,SA muslims must know those spreading hatred comments in here or other newslinks are not truly christians ,but rather jews pretending to be chritians, so please don't insult JESUS CHRIST.

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-20 15:17

      @Alex.Nkosi - I have yet to find any Muslim, including a 'drunk' one that will insult ANY Prophet.

      LanfearM - 2012-09-22 08:05

      I know the Muslims belief system and have read the qur'an and the hadiths and several interpretive articles by leading Muslims scholars. When I say "Muslims" I generally mean the extremists living mostly in Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan. Just a few weeks ago a leading imam of Iran burned thousands of bibles. Nothing happend. A few months ago a christian nutcase in the US burned a single qur'an, and the middle-east went up in flames. If you respect the Jews and Christians as "people of the book", then why the virulent hatred that most middle-eastern Muslims display towards Israel and the Jews? Why is the Iranian president calling to "wipe them from the map"? Don't tell me that the unjust treatment of Palestinians is the only cause for wanting to exterminate them. You say you respect the "people of the book"? Well what about all the other billions of people who are not "of the book"? What about Hindus, Buddhists, new-age Pagans, atheists, agnostics, spiritualists, and so forth? The christians are the problem when it comes to the Abrahamic religions, since they are the ones that refuse to accept Mohammed as a prophet, and refuse to acknowledge Judaism's stance. But that is a lenghty debate for another time, and frankly I don't care much. I don't believe in any god, never mind the violent god of Abraham. Read the bible and the qur'an, full of violence, war, bigotry, misogynism and evil actions.

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-23 14:17

      @Lanfear - Interesting points. I too have read the Qu'ran Hadith a few times, I have also read the Old and New Testament (I cannot remember which version). They are all great books, including many of the non Abrahamic faiths as you mentioned. I have always perceived religion to be like a convex lens. All the rays representing a particular faith, all seeking that final point at the end of the lens; which is GOD. Therefore the method may be different but the journey is the same. Based on my experience/s; I don't believe there was a Muslim / Jew issue prior to 1948. the cousins were living in relative harmony. Therefore I would have to say that the perceived hatred for each appeared since the creation of Israel and the subsequent displacement of the Palestinians. May I add, that this is perceived to be a Muslim/Jew issue; it is not. It is a Human rights issue. Remember atleast 40% of Palestinians are Christian; they may have Muslim sounding names, that does not mean that they are Muslim. Omar Sharif, the famous Egyptian actor is one example. I think the hateful rhetoric is a consequence of the support Israel enjoys from the UN, US and their allies and because there is no easy solution and people being displaced for so long builds frustration. With all due respect to you, if you understood the underlying Islamic doctrines, you will understand what is happening in the ME. Many of there actions are NOT in accordance with Islamic belief and also the lack of good, honest...

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-23 14:23

      ... spiritual leadership is lacking. Muslims are generally very passionate of there faith, particularly, there love for Prophet Muhamed PBUH. The point you are making about who accepts Jesus is a simple one... The Jews are waiting for the Messiah - they do not believe it is Jesus. They do not realise that he has come and gone. The Christians think that Jesus is the son of GOD, some believe that he is the Messiah and some believe in the trinity... The Muslims believe, that Jesus is a Prophet of GOD, and that he IS the Messiah and they, together with the Christians, are waiting for his return. So there you have it, hope it makes sense.

  • Larry - 2012-09-20 12:06

    Such a fragile religion.

      Bob.Cee123 - 2012-09-20 12:38

      They're all fragile. Just in different ways. Each one has its Achilles' heel.

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-20 14:40

      @larry - the way I see it; the religion aint fragile. It is solid as a rock. Some of the followers may be 'fragile', but then again, you find them in all 'faiths'

  • Ababeel Sherwani - 2012-09-20 13:37

    I think for all of you to understand this sensitive issue, let's makes Jesus s naked cartoons

      Bob.Cee123 - 2012-09-20 14:54

      Who cares dude, somebody beat you to it, and guess what? No worldwide riots, no chanting, ranting mobs, no murders.

  • refiloe.shikwambana - 2012-09-20 16:19

    Some Muslims are reading the Quran upsitedown.

      joe.mase.7 - 2012-09-21 00:39

      For someone that has an LLB - for you to make a comment like that, about people you have, clearly, no knowledge of - Who did you buy your degree from? you cannot possibly have a LLB. GOD help SA

  • Bob.Cee123 - 2012-09-20 23:44

    This is how a great deal of people feel about this situation

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