Israel army to keep God out of prayer

2011-08-04 22:20

Jerusalem - Israel's military said on Thursday it had opted to leave a reference to God out of a memorial prayer for fallen soldiers following a public debate that touched the heart of the country's secular and religious divide.

Military Chief of Staff Benny Gantz, who had formed a committee to examine how the Hebrew memorial prayer Yizkor would be recited at ceremonies, ruled the prayer would open with the phrase "May the nation of Israel remember" rather than "May God remember".

Ishai Bar, a reservist major general who headed the committee, said in a statement the dilemma touched "two sensitive nerves in Israeli society: on one hand grief and loss and on the other the interaction between religious and secular societies".

Military service is compulsory in Israel for Jewish men and women, who are drafted at the age of 18.

Although a majority of soldiers are not religious, a growing number of officers are devout Jews.

  • Romans8 - 2011-08-05 07:54

    This would be a sad mistake. What a silly move to make. Would they rather please God or please man?

      OuBoerseun - 2011-08-05 08:07

      I agree with you, right through the Bible it tells you that the Isrealites were always victorious when they had honoured God and heeded his commands. The Bible also tells us that in instances when they were disobedient they suffered losses, but when they repented afterwards they had success. It is a sad day for the Kingdom of God when his Chosen People decide to bend to the whims of worldly people who take offense, surely there are more devout Jews in the Isreali Military that non-believers. The same goes for our country where the majority of the citizens profess to be Christians but a small percentage of either non-believers or members of other faiths claim that their rights are being prejudiced and then we are told to remove God from our Schools and from our Government.

      Organist-1 - 2011-08-05 08:39

      Romans8, yes. But go jurther back inhistory that has the horrible habit of repeating itself. Everytime Israel turned it's back on God --- from the time of Moses, calamity overcame them and they lost every battle against the philistines--- even to the extent of being taken captivity and led as slaves into Babylon. I hope and pray it won't happen again and that they will repent in time before Armageddon.

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 08:43

      Quite ironic how a nation, which fervently holds to its beliefs, succumb to pleasing some people at the expense of the God they worship (although by rejecting the Son, they already rejected the Father). Oh well...

      Met - 2011-08-05 09:02

      Yes, nothing has changed. Even Moses had his hands full with them and pleaded with God to get someone else to lead them.But, The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob said" Yip, that small nation, stubborn and hard headed and hated by the world, those are My people" Just as He chose Saul, later to become Paul, on his way to persecute Christians, to later almost write half of the Bible."Thats My man, the one on a horse on his way to Damascus to persecute My people- I am going to use him" Later the Israelites wanted a king to save them from Egyptian oppression and what did God do? He sent a Baby into this world Who was rejected by those very people, later to turn the world upside down and inside out with the things He did and said. Eventually, a remnant WILL be saved, because the Living God is a covenant keeping God

      Cynical_BStd - 2011-08-05 09:08

      "I think that god has a sick sense of humour and when I die I expect to find him laughing" - Depeche Mode

      NEWS24SUX - 2011-08-05 09:12

      God created man in his own image ! WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT GOD ?

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 09:23

      @ News24sux - well for one, it says that we are ALL created in His image, that goes for whites, blacks, everyone (so racism is stupid and in fact an offense towards God); it says that He loves us more than any other creature and gave us dominion over all animals (sorry PETA) and the earth. It goes that He created us each in His own image, yet unique (could that be referring to DNA?). It says that God loves each of us more than anything. It says that when times are good, when times are bad, when you feel lost and lonely and have lost hope, when everyone hates you, God STILL loves you and wants you to turn to Him. Or, one can scoff at the thought of a God and take solace in knowing that they came from nothing, share heritage with animals, are nothing special and just a conglomerate of chemicals, and will turn to worm-food one day, so rather just do whatever you want while you're alive...

      Bontage - 2011-08-05 10:09

      Alternatively, it's a political state realising that religion is simply another grouping like any other group of like minded people, rather an express truth that should, by rights, hold no more sway over people's lives than any other belief system. I'm glad to see that the state of Israel has taken this step towards separating the Church and State, and I'm sorry that we don't see more nations taking this step.

      daaivark - 2011-08-05 10:36

      YES BONTAGE!!!

      Monacoroyals - 2011-08-05 10:59

      This is false reporting news 24... The only reason is because God’s name in Hebrew may hurt the feelings of Christian, Druze and Muslims fallen. Rather than hurt anyone’s feelings, Israel remembers them, while each family and their respective religion is done separately. Remember that 20 % of Israel’s' population is not Jewish, and as a democracy - this is the correct decision. God is still with Israel, as Israel is with God

      Paco7 - 2011-08-05 11:09

      you are a sad mistake,why didn't your parents use condoms

      SaintBruce - 2011-08-05 12:53

      You can't separate Church and State - they are made of the same stuff - people! Their purposes are supposed to line up along a simple principle - betterment of the people on both the inner and outer aspects for the building of a great nation. The ONLY time it was suggested to separate Church and State was in a letter between American statesmen and the idea was rejected. The pillars of good government are built along morality, respect, service and honesty and so too is the Church. When these aspects are not in play or completely disrespected, then both will falter and collapse. The Bible is very clear, right from Abraham's time, that progress and protection for all comes when God is placed first on the agenda. Why fight it, it is hop we are made to function anyway.

  • Bones - 2011-08-05 08:02

    Bwahahahahaha!!!!!!! They dump God in favour of pleasing people? They are on their way to a dark time.

      DEVILS SON - 2011-08-05 08:13

      I was in a dark time until i rejected god

  • PrefabSprout - 2011-08-05 08:05

    mmmm, God's chosen people rejecting Him??

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 08:41

      Wouldn't be the first time

      BrassCopper - 2011-08-05 11:25

      Where is the rejection? A government official has changed the way a memorial service is done as to accommodate the non Jewish & Atheist soldiers and every body shouts rejection... funny.

      Messenger - 2011-08-05 12:56

      BrassCopper, well, they do reject God, because of their rejection of Jesus Christ the Messiah, the Son of God. As long as they keep on stubbornly rejecting Jesus Christ, they ARE rejecting God.

  • Jaimo - 2011-08-05 08:15

    SHAME! This is the reason why the Jews have gone through so much hardship and persecution. They rejected the Messiah and disrespect God. However a covenant keeping God promised to woo them back to Himself and to accept the Messiah, JESUS CHRIST at HIS TRIUMPHAL RETURN. Between now and then will be the most awful tribulation like never seen before or will ever be!

      Bianca - 2011-08-05 08:22

      They never learn from their mistakes, do they?? Just watch what will happen... Peace Out Jesus Freak

  • michaelp1 - 2011-08-05 08:48

    Clearly haven't learnt their lesson!!!

  • Epicurius - 2011-08-05 08:53

    Maybe Skeletor will also realize that He-Man and the Masters of the Universe will maintain dominion over Castle GreySkull and the Care-Bears will all have a picnic with My Little Pony in the Smurf Village.

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 09:26

      Even that beats the idea that we came from nothing and life has no meaning or purpose so "do what thou wilt"

      Mad Hatter - 2011-08-05 13:14

      Its also better than a fable from a patchwork book put together at least a century after the events from sources who would be considered mentally ill today about an old man in the sky who hears the murmers from all the people at once , tells one random person about events to come and kills everyone else , sends his son/himself to get murdered to signify the change in rules for entering the cloud palace after death and then for the next 2000 years of existence ......nothing ,not a word.

  • Alfred - 2011-08-05 09:07

    I see most of the above commentators are for ramming their religion down the throats of non believers, just like the Taliban and the Iranian and Saudi regimes. It seems the god that they worship is a petty vindictive tyrant with an insatiable need to be worshipped, a god that will punish a whole nation merely because its name was not mentioned in a memorial prayer.

      TheWally - 2011-08-05 10:52

      Your sentiments and intended insults are weak since its a well known FACT that in Islam there is no compulsion in religion...

      Daemos1 - 2011-08-05 10:57

      Religion has a horribly incestuos relationship with political influence and financial gain. Our gods have changed according to who we need them to be in order to further our own agendas. what a world

      Paco7 - 2011-08-05 11:06

      Alfred the chief of your village called and said they missing an idiot and u must return at once

  • Atheist7 - 2011-08-05 09:12

    I have never understood what happened to "Thou Shalt Not Kill."

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 09:25

      I have never understood how an atheist instinctively adheres to "Thou Shalt Not Kill" when they scoff at the very scripture that first appeared in.

      Epicurius - 2011-08-05 09:42

      @ Matt - and yet atheists manage just fine in controlling their apparent animalistic urges to embark upon bloody murderous rampages. How is that? And when God commanded Abraham to kill his son, killing was suddenly good, because god ordered it....probably according to the likes of William Lane Craig, that is.

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 09:59

      @ Epicurius - ah, read that part of Genesis carefully... God was testing Abraham's faith and Abraham passed - Abraham didn't actually do it. He went up to the mount, was about to, and God said "whoa, don't do it for real, you pass!". And bloody murderous rampages - oh ye of little news-reading :-) I could write about Kip Kinkel (quote: there is no God, only hate), at least 2 school shootings in USA and Finland, where the rejection of God and love of evolution were DIRECTLY the cause. I could also write about Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Castro, Honecker, but you can read about them for yourself ;-) But good question. Otherwise, Atheists manage to contain the "animal instinct" to murder. Thank goodness for that! But at what stage did animals/humans decide to favour love and compassion over murder being a requirement to further evolve (because if you didn't, the stronger would mingle with the weaker, get lost in the gene pool and any new variation would be lost). I've read the Theory of Evolution of Morals and almost wet myself from laughing...

      Epicurius - 2011-08-05 10:11

      @ Matt - The people mentioned were evil individuals who did not massacre people in the name of atheism. You mentioned atheists. I am one. What about me? No murderous rampages in my 'to do' list. Please list a logical, sequential argument proving that love of evolution and atheism were direct causes of these killings. Can't wait to read this and wet MYSELF at your fallacious reasoning. Step up Matt. And don't reach for the 'report comment' button like you did down below.

      Hoofbite - 2011-08-05 10:47

      @Matt //I could write about Kip Kinkel (quote: there is no God, only hate), at least 2 school shootings in USA and Finland, where the rejection of God and love of evolution were DIRECTLY the cause.// Go ahead Matt. Write about it. Explain to us how "the rejection of God and the love of evolution" were the direct cause of these shootings.

      TheWally - 2011-08-05 10:59

      @Mat, also remember that GOD commanded him to sacrifice his ONLY son. Abraham had two sons... so this is clear that when GOD commanded him to do it, that is had to be his Edest son, since his second was not born yet (hence being his only son).. Genesis mentions "his only" by name about 8 times then towards the end the name of "his only son" changes... who changed it???.. someone had changed it to his second sons name (youngest son) for some reason

      Messenger - 2011-08-05 12:33

      Wally, consider this: "No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation. But I will establish my covenant with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear to you at this season next year". Genesis 17:19-21. In Genesis 21, we read that Abraham sent Hagar and Ishmael away. Then: "Take your son, your only son Isaac, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering upon one of the mountains of which I shall tell you." Genesis 22:2 Therefore, according to the Bible, there is NO question that God was referring to Isaac, Abraham's only PROMISED son, to be sacrificed.

  • Epicurius - 2011-08-05 09:13

    It must make life a little more exciting to imagine that we are part of this big epic saga, in which prophecies are made and are realised, where gods are tempestuous and vindictive, where entire nations fall in and out of favour with the creator of the universe, who exacts curses upon them for worshipping false idols or whatever anthropomorphic whim strikes him on that particular day. It must be great to be part of some massive live action role-play game and suspend one's disbelief, even for a few moments in the day. How does one do that? Really!! How? I'd love to escape reality, even for a few moments each day. Do I have to take a tablet or something?

  • TastelessJoke - 2011-08-05 09:15

    Without a god to hear it, it doesn't matter what you put in your prayer.

  • Phumlani - 2011-08-05 09:19

    Things have to this way before they get better. Remember back in egypt when israel was still captive ,as the set time for their deliverance got closer opression got worse . You can keep this in mind that God will arise and have mercy on zion.

      Epicurius - 2011-08-05 09:25

      Remember when Gargamel and Azriel captured Smurfette and kept her in that little cage, but Papa Smurf came up with a cunning plan and all the Smurfs rescued pretty little Smurfette and they all lived happily ever after. Oh my!! What a lovely day that was!! I do declare!!

      Matt :-) - 2011-08-05 09:36

      Once upon a time, nothing exploded and created the earth. It rained on the rocks and created a soup, which created bacteria, which became frogs - Darwin kissed the frog and yay here we are. (scary thing is that if you read a textbook CAREFULLY, this is exactly what is taught)

      Epicurius - 2011-08-05 10:22

      Matt, you pose arguments like an infant. '(scary thing is that if you read a textbook CAREFULLY, this is exactly what is taught)' When you use a word such as 'exactly' it can mean only one thing. 'Exactly' does not mean 'something similar' or 'approximately'. It means EXACTLY. You'll do well to realize that for 'Reductio ad absurdum' to be used effectively, it is not used as you did in your post. You were doing well and should have ended at Darwin kissing the frog. Continuing with your above statement only highlights your ignorance and your willingness to believe anything.

      Hoofbite - 2011-08-05 10:24

      @Matt. Which textbook was that exactly? Creation Science perhaps?

      daaivark - 2011-08-05 10:39

      Hoo, Hoofbite. Now you have opened the door to a flood of weird references.

      Hoofbite - 2011-08-05 10:57

      @Daaivark. Though my second question was intended to be facetious I do wonder what "textbooks" dear Matt reads to come to the conclusions he does. The biology textbooks I read at school and university certainly didn't contain anything nearly as outlandish. Or maybe the problem doesn't lie with the textbooks Matt is reading...

  • Henry - 2011-08-05 09:52

    I don't think they are dropping G-d. They have just changed the words to a more Kabbalistic meaning, and less offensive in His eyes. There are many words for Him. None should be uttered. So, I think they are just following the Bible.

      TheWally - 2011-08-05 11:04

      Much to the contrary, the Ashkanazi "Jews" dont believe in G-D, they actually atheists not Jews, the military is controlled by Atheists, why do you think they have condone the the killings and oppression of tens of 1000's, women and children

      Paco7 - 2011-08-05 11:07

      but the Jews holy book is the Torah

  • Cheetos - 2011-08-05 09:56

    I think it's a good thing considering God would not Condone Israels actions. They're being very clear in that they are separating from religion and their actions are based on their own Atrocious behavior and not justifying it through religion.

      Monacoroyals - 2011-08-05 11:09

      God doesn’t condone their actions - here you are correct! God wants all Palestinians OUT of his land, but the Israeli's are doing nothing about it.

      Cheetos - 2011-08-05 12:35

      @monacoroyals. Yes God wants palestians out of the land because he hates them right? And it 'belongs' to the Jews right? Of course! That makes so much sense. Let's see how much success they have now that they've broken away from God ;)

  • Gideon - 2011-08-05 10:06

    @Epicurius - you dont get to join the role playing game as you name it, you submit to a higher authority, namely God and he opens your eyes to the truth. Godless individuals would and cannot understand it because you are so filled with pride and earthly wisdom that there is no place for a higher authority in your life. But do not be dispondant, Jesus is coming back 1 day, and then my friend you can raise the matter with the King of Kings, face to face.

      daaivark - 2011-08-05 10:42

      I beg to differ, Gideon. I don't submit to this higher authority you talk about and I am doing just fine, thanks. And please don't worry about me. I am neither "dispondant" nor despondent. I am perfectly content with who and where I am.

      Epicurius - 2011-08-05 10:43

      I know I come accross smug and aloof, but comments like 'We'll see what you say when you face Jesus in person' just take the cake on the smugness scale. Am I supposed to be scared of him or totally unafraid? How exactly does that whole dynamic work? Will he beat me to submission, banish me to oblivion???

      Mad Hatter - 2011-08-05 12:59

      Jesus is back , his name is Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda and he preaches in the states at the growing grace ministry.

      Epicurius - 2011-08-05 13:33

      @ Mad Hatter - He was in Bill Maher's 'Religulous'. If you haven't seen it, it's certainly worth watching.

  • TheWally - 2011-08-05 10:41

    well the chief "Rabbi" to the army justified killing people not too long ago, so this comes as no surprise to anyone. The religious jews that run Isreal are ASHKANZI's anyways. They are not real Jews but Atheists and this if even further proof that they indeed are GODLESS people. No wonder they are condemed by Orthodox Jews like these: I have had the priveledge and honour to be in one of these Rabi's lectures when they were invited and came to lecture in a Mosque in Cape Town and I must say he (Rabi Weiz) is a very learnerd and well respected man in the worldwide Jewish community and even amoung Muslims as a true representative of the TRUE TORAH and ORIGINAL peaceful Jewish teachings of respect and love for GOD Palestine will eventually be free with ther grace OF GOD - remember Jesus was a Palestinian and is a Prophet in Islam aswell (Theres even a Chapter in the Qur'an called the Chapter of Jesus aswell as a Chapter called Mary - the mother of Prophet Jesus) peace, love and respect... Waleed

      Monacoroyals - 2011-08-05 11:15 - a group of +/- 400 nutcases from Jerusalem and New York! Every religion has notecases, even Islam Waleed... how many nutcases are Muslim... how many terror organisations are there? How many millions of litters of Muslim blood have been spilled by their brethren fanatical Muslims... Walled supports nutcases no matter what religion they are. At least you don’t discriminate.

      TheWally - 2011-08-05 12:03

      calling WORLDWIDE Orthodox Jewish Rabi's who call for peace "nutcases" says alot about you and the agenda you support and promote..

      Monacoroyals - 2011-08-05 12:44

      Everyone wants peace... the members of "" are self-hating Jews who want the destruction of Israel, luckily their membership only numbers 400 or so. But you are correct; almost all Rabbis call for peace - it’s just a little hard when your partners for that peace process also yearn for 72 virgins.

  • Monacoroyals - 2011-08-05 11:04

    This is false reporting news 24... The only reason is because God’s name in Hebrew may hurt the feelings of Christian, Druze and Muslims fallen & their respective loved ones. Rather than hurt anyone’s feelings, Israel remembers them, while each family and their respective religion is done separately. Remember that 20 % of Israel’s' population is not Jewish, and as a democracy - this is the correct decision. God is still with Israel, as Israel is with God

  • Carmaine Harrison - 2011-08-05 11:04

    Ja well, God remembers. There is NOTHING He forgets! It IS the nation that needs reminding. Perhaps a smart move after all.

      daaivark - 2011-08-05 12:49

      Well, it looks as though he forgot a few million people in Somalia just this week. And don't give me the "He's giving us a lesson" twaddle please.

      j4truth - 2011-08-05 13:29

      The present Somalia is a direct result of the forsaking the true God (Jehovah-Elohim/JesusChrist) for a false god (Islam/alah a demonic impersonation of the idol:'moon god'!! GOD IS NOT MOCKED!

  • Zionist - 2011-08-05 13:41

    Lol The army changed YIZKOR that is recited by the grave of a soldier – and now everyone thinks Israel has just cut its relationship with the Almighty. This move is a sign of respect for the non-Jewish soldiers who have died for the State of Israel. To read some of the comments here is hilarious. I guess NEWS24 got what they wanted…a no-news story in Israel is again making news in NEWS24. NEWS24 makes Israel look like a superpower like the USA, with an industry like the European Union, and a population like China & India combined… ever day there is a few news articles about Israel. The only time Israel is not in the news is when there are earthquakes and tsunamis…

      Messenger - 2011-08-05 14:20

      Zionist, many of the comments here refer to the Jews' rejection of God in a general sense, not only because of this specific event. They reject God, because of their rejection of Jesus Christ the Messiah, the Son of God. As long as they keep on stubbornly rejecting Jesus Christ, they ARE rejecting God. It is not anti-Semitic to point this out. It is not out of hate that I say this, but out of concern and pity for the Jewish nation, whom God will subject to the Great Tribulation because of their stubbornness.

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