Jewish circumcision assault: German court

2012-06-27 09:00

Berlin - A German court has ruled that circumcising young Jewish boys amounts to bodily harm even if parents consent to the procedure.

Cologne state court said the child's right to physical integrity trumps freedom of religion and parents' rights, German news agency dapd reported on Tuesday.

The case involved a doctor accused of carrying out a circumcision on a 4-year-old that led to medical complications. The doctor was acquitted, however, and prosecutors said they won't appeal.

The president of Germany's Central Council of Jews, Dieter Graumann, called the ruling "unprecedented and insensitive".

He urged parliament to clarify the legal situation "to protect religious freedom against attacks".

Graumann said the circumcision of newborn Jews has been practiced for thousands of years and "every country in the world respects this religious right".

  • mfundi.ndaba - 2012-06-27 11:07

    They're at it again folks! The Jews on the left and the Germans on the right. *jokes*

  • patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-06-27 11:19

    Agree fully with the court, a barbaric practice. Spare me the "thousands of years" crap. Only the individual should have the right to decide if he wants to be mutilated.

      trevor.lovell.3 - 2012-06-27 12:07

      I don't see or hear of any babies being allowed to decide if they want to be aborted or not. Clearly, that individual isn't being afforded the same right.

      patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-06-27 12:30

      K*k argument! Not worth a rebuttal.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-06-27 16:07

      "I don't like you, I don't wanna play anymore." What, are you five?

  • nisar.tiseker - 2012-06-27 12:36

    Cicumcision is part of the religious practice for Jews and Muslims which cannot just be prevented due a single incident gone wrong, besides the medical benefits - Where is religious tolerance heading :-&

      patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-06-27 12:59

      Religion is outdated mythology. If you were born with a foreskin ,then nature intended it that way. From a legal perspective, if you are going to deny a person the right to decide for themselves, then legal action should be totally appropriate. In any case, just because you are born into a family following a particular religion, does not mean that you will follow that religion. LET PEOPLE DECIDE FOR THEMSELVES!

      Bruce - 2012-06-27 13:39

      Why don't we automatically remove the hymen in girls, and for good measure the appendix of all newborns because they are not necessary. Can anyone give a MEDICAL reason for the ball park removal of the foreskin?

      lovell.trevor - 2012-06-27 13:50

      @Patrick: What happens in the case of a parent who takes their little girl to have her ears pierced, because it looks pretty, and then the little girl develops an ear infection that causes deafness in that ear. Furthermore, a parent has a frame of reference in which they deem to be correct and raise their children accordingly. Your frame of reference might not include religion. I would hazard that you don't allow your 5 year old to decide for himself whether or not murder is right or wrong? @Bruce: Medically, it has been proven that circumcision aids in hygiene and as a result has had a direct impact in the realm of sexually transmitted diseases, like HIV. Currently, in South Africa we have internationally sponsored voluntary circumcision clinics for this exact reason. USAID, amongst others, donates funds to set up these male circumcision clinics.

      patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-06-27 14:01

      Again a k*k argument. Please stop the infantile analogies! Also suggest you broaden your research on the medical front. Your argument has had more holes shot through it than a sieve.

      lovell.trevor - 2012-06-27 14:15

      @Patrick: Circumcision research: Not bad arguments - extrapolations. If this, then surely that? Every point you've put forward I have been able to take to another level. Surely, this would be a good way to determine the validity of an argument? Children on many items cannot choose for themselves - the very reason that parents have legal guardianship until the age where a child is deemed to be mentally mature to take their own decisions. Obviously, there are risks that every parent takes when it comes to taking a decision for their child, religious or otherwise.

      lovell.trevor - 2012-06-27 14:19

      @Patrick: Circumcision Research from the Medical Research Council: Conclusion It is heart warming to know that there is some substantial evidence of other forms of HIV prevention, albeit only female to male transmission. With the high prevalence rate, especially in South Africa, it would be important for the South African government to take some decisive steps in promoting and initiating male circumcision on a much wider scale in order to support other HIV-prevention efforts.

      SarcasticAgnostic - 2012-06-27 16:09

      "Go away! You don't agree with me *sniff*" Lol

      jaba.kov - 2012-06-27 16:14

      You need to think about this calmly, because some people are getting angry about it, even using inflamatory words like 'genital mutilation'. Make sure you are fully informed because you as the parent have the responsibility to make decisions on behalf of your child - like the big decisions about vaccinations, knowing that for long term benefit to the child and others, the pain of the injection and often the fever which follows are worthwhile.

      jaba.kov - 2012-06-27 16:17

      Most men won't talk about their sexual problems, or even their desire to be circumcised. Try discussing it with your partner who may have definite views! Sexual pleasure is not diminished but often enhanced by the slightly reduced glans sensitivity making it easier to control orgasm. If circumcision is the right decision for you, do make arrangements. You will never regret it.

  • Larry - 2012-06-27 14:52

    Circumcision as practiced in Judaism when at eight days old is very safe and it is very rare that complications occur. We do not hear of incidences of mortality or injury in the world-wide Jewish community. On the other hand, young boys and men in our Xhosa communities are being mutilated hand over fist and losing their manhood or dying from unmanaged infections.

  • jaba.kov - 2012-06-27 16:03

    This is an operation as old as mankind, highlighted today by Jewish and Muslim tradition in which all males are usually circumcised as part of their faith. It is performed worldwide by many tribes and cultures as an initiation rite and, despite some aggressive opposition, it is routinely done at birth for the majority of boys in the USA as well as many in Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and much of the English speaking world - except, latterly, in the UK & Germany. Overall it is estimated that a quarter of the male population is circumcised - about 750 million males. They cannot all be wrong! the benefits of circumcision: I older man it helps prevent bladder or prostate gland problems. Stops almost complete the chanse of getting cancer of the penis. Cancer of the cervix in women is due to the Human Papilloma Virus. It thrives under and on the foreskin from where it can be transmitted during intercourse. at least 20% of cancer of the cervix would be avoided if all men were circumcised (the British Medical Journal in April 2002). circumcised men are 8 times less likely to contract the HIV virus. Lots of men, and their partners, prefer the appearance of their penis after circumcision, It is odour-free, it feels cleaner, and they enjoy better sex. Awareness of a good body image is a very important factor in building self confidence.

      jaba.kov - 2012-06-27 16:08

      Balanitis is an unpleasant, often recurring, inflammation of the glans. It is quite common and can be prevented by circumcision. lastly, Urinary tract infections sometimes occur in babies and can be quite serious. Circumcision in infancy makes it 10 times less likely. Do yourself a favour, no matter what religion your are, if you have a son - get him circumcised cause as time passes the medical fields finds more and more reasons why its useful to have done... I guess those 'Jews' knew something 5 thousand years ago when this practice first apeared.

      patrick.buckley.712 - 2012-06-27 16:50

      @jaba.kov Surely you do a bit of research before you write such drivel! In the USA, circumcision is down from 77% in 1972, to 54% in 2010. In Canada in 1995, 35 000 circumcisions we performed, and in 2009 only 13 000 were performed. The vast majority of Canadian's have always favoured not circumcising. The Australian's and New Zealanders favoured circumcision in the 1920's and 1930's. Today it is no longer routinely performed, and the VAST majority of Kiwi's and Aussie's are uncut today. All over the world except in Africa, circumcision had declined very substantially over the past fifty years. It is an outdated practice, clung onto by religious idiots! So I suppose the 75% of uncut cripples, with deceased and dirty penises, will have to spend hours in lines at clinics, hoping for cures so as not to infect their partners according to you. This dirty fallacy is such BS. You are either a clean or dirty person, and a foreskin has nothing to do with it. The article however is about secularism. Noboby seems to get that point.

      allcoveredinNinjas - 2012-06-27 17:10

      Its not a procedure of neccessity ,purely on that basis i think patrick is right on this one .

  • trevor.leon.5 - 2012-06-27 16:21

    i cannot believe that26 people disagree with patrick.buckley! are you all morons? woman in sudan whose clitoreses are cut off,is that ok because its their CULTURE? wake up idiots!

      jaba.kov - 2012-06-27 16:37

      No one is taking bout FEMALE circumcision which has zero health benefits - conversation here is about Male circumcision only - read the article.

      lovell.trevor - 2012-06-27 20:13

      Very valid point. I hadn't thought of that. That said, the previous comment is correct from a medical point of view. Technically, it's known as female genital mutilation and actively destroys the external genitalia. Perhaps Patrick has it right: save circumcision( religiously speaking) until the child is old enough to decide whether they want to be circumcised.

  • olivia.duplessis.1 - 2012-06-27 16:43

    So they go against the Torah and the law YVHV gave to the Jewish people. But all hell break loose when you go against Moslems or any other faith. I am with the Jews. If you understood the covenant it represented you would understand the practice. But it has to be done 8 days after the boy was born as per the instruction that YVHV gave in the desert to the Jewish people.

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