Neo-Nazis 'take over' German town

2011-04-05 08:46

Jamel - Cries of "Sieg Heil" in the street, neo-Nazi rallies, far-right slogans on walls: Welcome to Jamel, a tiny northeast German village locals say has been annexed by Nazi sympathisers.

Until recently a sign at the entrance to the village said visitors had arrived at the "community of Jamel: free, social, national", evoking the National Socialists or Nazis.

A wooden signpost pointed the way to Braunau am Inn, the Austrian birthplace of Adolf Hitler.

A campaign poster for the far-right NPD party is one of the first things visible in the hamlet of 10 or so tumbledown houses.

Around six of these houses are home to neo-Nazis, said Birgit and Horst Lohmeyer, a couple fighting a high-profile campaign to tell the world about Jamel.


Visitors can instantly see which houses belong to far-right extremists, said Birgit, a 52-year-old author. "They have all painted their houses the same colour: A sort of reddish-brown," she said in her farmhouse kitchen.

The Lohmeyers moved here from Hamburg, Germany's second city and main port, in 2004, hoping to swap the big-town life for their dream of a rustic farmhouse in an idyllic country setting. But that dream turned swiftly to a nightmare as far-right extremists moved to the village.

"We knew that a famous and convicted far-right extremist, Sven Krueger, lived here with his mother and sister, but we moved here anyway. We were convinced we could deal with it," said Birgit.

"Since then, the situation has got a lot worse. More of Krueger's far-right buddies have moved into the village. They see the village as theirs and they treat it as such. The atmosphere is one of extreme hostility."

The couple has heard reports of children greeting each other with Hitler salutes. They have themselves heard neo-Nazi songs ringing out into the street - "Adolf Hitler is our Fuehrer".

"We get big festivals here, far-right festivals where neo-Nazi songs are sung," Birgit said.

The Krueger in question is a senior NPD member and owns a demolition firm in nearby Grevesmuehlen whose company logo shows a man smashing what seems to be a Jewish Star of David.


"We're the boys for the dirty work," is the firm's slogan.

Police recently raided the premises.

"Authorities found a machine gun and 200 rounds of ammunition. He is now in custody," said Stefan Urbanek, a spokesperson for prosecutors in nearby Schwerin, capital of the state of Mecklenburg-Western Pomerania.

Since that raid things have begun to change in Jamel. The "national" sign disappeared, the directions to Hitler's birthplace were taken down.

"We don't know if it was the authorities or Krueger's men," said Birgit.

Repeated efforts to contact Krueger were unsuccessful and an approach to one of the brown-red houses in the village was met with a volley of insults.

Krueger's Grevesmuehlen office is protected by barbed wire, fierce guard dogs and a watchtower, complete with searchlight. "It's amazing, he's created his very own concentration camp," said Horst, shaking his head.

Unexpected recognition

Back in Jamel, the Lohmeyers said they suffer from what they call a "constant, latent threat". People hiss "piss off" over the fence.

But they are unrepentant and decided to fight back. Every year they hold a large music festival "for democracy", attended by a few hundred people.

In 2010, far-right sympathisers infiltrated the concert and broke someone's nose, they said.

They have received much unexpected recognition for their lonely stand. German President Christian Wulff has invited them to Berlin to tell him their plight and they won an award from the Jewish community for civil courage.

"With their extremely courageous stance in Jamel, they are not only giving a brave signal in the fight against far-right extremism, but also encouraging others... not to give up," said Dieter Graumann, head of the Central Council of Jews in Germany.

Still, the question remains. Why live in constant fear in such circumstances?

The answer is simple: The Lohmeyers see themselves as a bulwark against a creeping extremism they believe is becoming widespread in their part of eastern Germany.

"The problem in Jamel is actually not what we consider the biggest problem. The real problem is that the whole region is being overrun by far-right extremists... Jamel is just a microcosm of the issue," said Birgit.

"They are slowly taking over small places like Jamel and infiltrating them with their ideology," she said. "It's a definite strategy," added her husband.

And despite the fear and the unpleasant atmosphere in the village, it has become a point of principle for the pair.

"Leave now? What sort of sign would that be for the right-wingers? Of course we're not leaving," said Birgit.

"This fight continues."

  • PeterZ - 2011-04-05 09:05

    Extreme idiologies whether far right or islamic extremism is slowly killing the world and should be halted immediately! But, it suits certain nations and politicians so we, the ordinary people of this world, are the sufferers!

      Judgmental - 2011-04-05 10:48

      So why be ordinary?

  • Wernerkwane - 2011-04-05 09:08

    Might be a good thing, that way all the Idiots live in one town, and the rest of us can live in reality.

      Eric - 2011-04-05 13:15

      @ThaTruth - feelings of inequality might disappear quicker when affirmative action & stupidity like BEE is abandoned and you lot join the rest of the country in a free and fair SA community, when last have you seen a previously disadvantaged person? now I’m not talking about the obvious disadvantage of growing up in the town ships but the fact that there are many reasons that people still suffer, and none that you can give that would make you able to blame it on the past. bla bla bla!

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 14:40

      @Eric And all you have said has nothing to do with "Neo-Nazis 'take over' German town" muppet!

      Eric - 2011-04-05 15:19


  • jiamalunga - 2011-04-05 09:11

    We should send Juju and Floyd to go and talk to them!

      Monkey123 - 2011-04-05 09:16

      better yet. we should offer them citizenship.

  • Opinionated - 2011-04-05 09:15

    Hectic stuff, not to be funny, i have never agreed with apartheid, but if only our blacks where taught world history in schools and not only south african history, perhaps then they would see that there is a muuuuuuch higher level to oppression that any south african ever experience. I have no doubt that what their ancestors went through was tougher than tough, but it still doesn't compare to many other dictatorships that were experienced in the world.

      kitchenboy3 - 2011-04-05 09:24

      Wow, you never agreed with apartheid but you call them OUR blacks?

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 09:28

      Yes, our blacks, as in south african blacks, how else would you prefer that i refer to them? our darker people? It was our black south africans that suffered through apartheid. Its not a racial statement so don't try make it out to be one.

      ThaTruth - 2011-04-05 10:10

      The psychological oppression that people of colour endured in South Africa far outweighs any physical oppression. The physical oppression has come to an end but we still struggle to overcome the psychological oppression. Feelings on inferiority still prevails as well the preception that people of colour is not good enough in corporate or political governance. The memory of Steve Biko lives on... The Black Consciousness Movement continues because there is still a struggle for psychological emansipation. Do not undermine what we as South Africans endured during apartheid...

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 10:28

      Like i said ThaTruth, i have no doubt that what what people went through in the day of apartheid was horrendous, BUT... it does not compare to what was experienced in other parts of the world. It does not make Apartheid any less wrong, nor does it take away from what was experienced through apartheid, But again, there was much greater suffering, people not only oppressed, not only forced to work as slaves, but people that were killed in their masses for fun, by means of gas chambers, by means of firing ranges, by means of starvation.... you should research it, thousands of people were forced to work in the snow without clothes until they died, all because they had a different religion and because they didn't have the right colour hair and eyes..... that is what my ancestors had to endure.... don't assume that my family doesn't know the effects of oppression. My comment from the start is merely that these other kinds of oppression and dictatorships should also be taught in schools.

      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 10:36

      @ThaTruth.. Shame, still have the victim mentality do you ? Its you and people like you that brings South Africa down. The entitlement and feel sorry for me attitude. And its both black and white that do it. Black becoz they just want something else to blame if they are proven to be incompetent and the whites that feel betrayed by FW and Pikkie and "our country is going down the shithole" (which it is) and they lost the political power that gave them their own AA and WEE (White economic empowerment). You know what ? Most of the people alive in South Africa didn't vote for the Nats, did you know that in the 46 odd years of Nats rule they had the majority vote ONCE ? Its called "First past the post" constituency voting. The Nats changed the wards to ensure they won the constituencies needed. If you are black or white and you are competent then do your job, do what you can. And if you can't, you know what ? Learn from it, don't blame someone else, not AA, not BEE or apartheid. You make your own life and you choose to keep on failing. So shut up and get on with life.

      ThaTruth - 2011-04-05 10:55

      I respect all those Jewish people together with their families that had to endure such brutality and hardship. I encourage you to not compare the two because for you the loss of life during that period is unaceptable... and to me the loss of life for generations to come because of the psychological oppression that occurred during apartheid is also unacceptable. Entrenching such a deep belief that you as a human being is the scum of the earth is unacceptable. Therefore I do not agree with the mentality that whatever we as South Africans endured is not as bad as others, whatever we have overcome is not as amazing as others.. This belief that manifests itself in your statement is unacceptable to me... Yes, our children should learn about the history in other countries but not so that they may feel that what they endured was not as bad as others.

      Judgmental - 2011-04-05 10:58 will always be a struggler and a sufferer and an inferior, why? because you can't escape your own mental slavery. Nobody told you to suffer, instead of learning you burnt your books, the guns were better than knowledge, reap what you sow, those chains in which you are tied down with will hang around you and your Black Brethren's neck till you die. No escape for the weak and useless

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 11:11

      @Opinionated How can you offer a comparison on something you know nothing about, you were never a victim of the holocaust or apartheid, yet here you are telling "your blacks" that they should feel greatful as it could've been much worse, sis man!!

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 11:33

      Sigh, i quote myself... "My comment from the start is merely that these other kinds of oppression and dictatorships should also be taught in schools" You can turn my comments into whatever you want to, i am not going to waste my time arguing an opinion. You may think that my comment was meant with bad intentions, but fact of the matter is this... Due to apartheid, education was not provided to black people whereas it was to whites, due to that, there is a lot of things that my grandparents and my parents are able to teach me that black childrens parents and grandparents wouldn't be able to teach them, just as that works the other way round..... But at the end of the day, apartheid is being taught is schools, which is very important i don't disagree, BUT other types of oppression should also be taught in school as well. Over and out

      ThaTruth - 2011-04-05 11:42

      @Uwe Klopfer and his comrade Judgmental – LOL...Sorry for the late response... I was busy making my own life... Shame, you still have the superiority mentality... I understand now, that’s why you are so frustrated because you (Uwe Klopfer) think you are superior and no one else wants to bow down to you...Aghh shame... Judgemental – “Nobody told me to suffer”... It is the ideology of "good neighbourliness" that made me suffer. It is this ideology that restricted my movements in my own country, provided me with crap education, etc And, NO... I don’t suffer from any inferiority complex because I dealt with my issues a long time ago, and clearly you haven’t dealt with yours. The two of you ignorant... For you to NOT acknowledge that apartheid had a psychological impact on all of us (black, white asian, coloured) and that his should be addressed. This is not a “New South Africa” it is a “Post-Apartheid South Africa”. But the two of you are probably too dum to understand the difference...

      RoyoF - 2011-04-05 11:43

      While I agree with you to the extent that the magnitude and death toll experienced by the Jews in the gas chambers , or the left wing Indonesians or the Native American peoples,Biafran folk, Armenian Turks or any other races or groups whose peole died in their thousands and millions does in no way compare to Apartheid South Africa I still think alot of SA whites underestimate the damage caused and the long lasting psycological effects .Thier are lots of advantaged people in this land who need to examine their past a little more critically and be a lot less righteous.Regarding the inferiority complex really THATruth et al need to drop it . Its over . Its been over for 15 years now and can no longer be used as an excuse for the various behaviours and attitudes that exist among many people in this country.These concepts of absolute entitlement , lawlessness ("coz its our Culture")and inability to see grey just is not helping. Im sorry my forefathers wouldnt let you play in the rugby club , or live ina nice clean suburb or have you promoted to a postion of power . But they didnt line all you and your family up against the wall on a bright Sunday and kill you for fun.Now thats something to be mad about .

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 11:46

      @Opinionated lol!, understood, but i thought european history was taught in schools?

      ThaTruth - 2011-04-05 12:06

      To acknowledge that apartheid had a psychological impact on all South Africans does not in any way encourage lawlisness and the spirit of entitlement. South Africans are better than that. "It's been 15 years" -If we don't acknowledge the psychological impact of apartheid and deal with it, then we will be having the same coversation 50 years from now.

      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 12:30

      @ThaTruth. Nice response, but you completely miss the point. At no time did i deny the psycholigical effect of apartheid. And how dare you even suppose to think you know me and if i have an superiority complex or not. One of the best bosses i had was a black person. He knew his job and hell could he motivate you. The worst boss i had was a white one. Arrogant prick, downgrading anyone who was "below his class".There was your superiority complex. Yes its a bit tougher for me as a white male to get a job, did i moan and complain about it to anyone ? No i didn't, I kept looking, kept trying to show the world and potential employers i am the best. Guess what ? I got a job, based on my skills. Clearly your thinking that I think i am superior is an indication that you think you are inferior. Guess what ? I'm no better than you as a person and you aren't better than me. We both gotta take a shit, we both can get the flu, we both need to eat and we both need to sleep. But I can probably ride a bike better than you and cook better than you, you are probably much more imaginative and creative than i am. I know my weaknesses. But one of them sure as hell is not to be told by anyone who or what i am, especially when what they are saying is utter crap. So next you THINK you know who and what i am, i suggest you rather try to find out. The point i was originally making was that sitting in a corner feeling a sorry for oneself has never and will never help anyone, least the one doing it.

      buzz - 2011-04-05 13:45

      @ Thetruth, your opinion of yourself is completely and utterly up to you, and no-one else. As easy, and as simple as that. Not complicated, not involved. Just you.

      Guru - 2011-04-05 14:26

      @ Tha Truth - the difference between you and I are not the color of our skin, it’s the fact that I have pride and you don’t, I have guts and you don’t. Apartheid is over - why can’t you get over it? Drop your inferiority complex and realize your own destiny, for that is the only way you will feel any sense of achievement. As a white man I don’t owe you anything, we all suffered, I don’t complain or play the victim, I get on with my life, so should you. People like you should contribute to the future of the new SA or shut up.

      TheDes - 2011-04-06 07:42

      i am one of your blacks and if you really know your blacks you would know that we were fed your whites' history not our black history. we were taught about mousolini, hitler, gadaffi etc. so stop talking nonsense. read more!

      barryjoelm - 2011-05-27 14:26

      .....and if only you were (no "h") to spell......

  • cerveza - 2011-04-05 09:29

    Idiots exist all over the world and come in all colours. But one way the East German communities are fighting these facists is by putting up posters everywhere telling the neo-Nazis they are the scum of the earth and they are unwanted, sadly this is what is triggering them to all move into the same areas where they in turn try to push out the "open minded"

  • mac - 2011-04-05 09:29

    Learning that he's an author, I expect the husband will shortly be writing a book about living under the horrors of neo-Nazis (all 10 of them). And that the book will be wildly popular in North America.

  • Ross - 2011-04-05 09:44

    Are the Neo Nazis worse than the Communists? We have both of then here in South Africa.

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 10:35

      Communism is a misunderstood word, the word communism means in community, the whole theory behind it is not all that bad, but it would never world regardless because of peoples ambition. The idea behind communism is that everyone works and does whatever job they are given and everyone gets paid the same wages, everyone gets a house and a car and everyone is completely equal, one month you works as a farmer, the next month in a factory etc. Why the idea is hated is because people like to be better than others, it is only natural to want more. And other than that, people need to be able to do things that they enjoy, communism doesn't allow for that.

      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 10:39

      Commies, Socialists, Racists, Nationilists, Unionists and my own personal favourites : Nepotists, Idiots and Incompetents

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 10:40

      Sorry, in addition to that, Nazis are far worse, because all they they stand for is a superior race, Blonde hair and blue eyes, they targeted jews in specific, but many people, greek, portuguese, italian, blacks etc were killed merely because their eyes and hair were brown.

      multicon - 2011-04-05 10:52

      Opinionated, the part "but many people, greek, portuguese, italian, blacks etc were killed merely because their eyes and hair were brown" confuses me, where did you get this information from? Did you know that Adolf Hitler had brown hair and brown eyes?

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 11:04

      And Mussolini, Italian Dictator, was part of the Axis alliance. Not sure about that last statement of yours, Opinionated.

      Ross - 2011-04-05 11:36

      @Opinionated, Stalin killed millions of his own people, he was even worse than Hitler. When Germany invaded Poland from the West he invaded Poland from the East and murdered 20 000 Polish officers in the forest of Katyn. This all in the name of Communist ideology.

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 11:43

      Not just that Ross, it is estimated that Stalin killed more of his own countrymen (Russians), than all the casualties of war on both Axis and Allied side put together. You didn't dare to go against Stalins communist policies.

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 11:47

      Yes Multicon he did, and i know that.... do some research dude. He felt that that superior race was blonde hair and blue eyes.

      Opinionated - 2011-04-05 11:52

      @ Ross, indeed he did, the extremity that people hold their beliefs is the problem, the idea behind communism is just a theory on lifestyle. Not all communists believe in the idea so strongly that they would go out and kill people to try get their way.

      multicon - 2011-04-05 13:44

      Opinionated, I'm not a dude and I'm Aryan too. Just point me to your source for interest sake.

      Opinionated - 2011-04-06 10:42

      Multicon.... Aryan - (in Nazi doctrine) a non-Jewish Caucasian, especially of Nordic stock. Nordic by discription - Head - Long Face - Long Hair - Very Light Eyes - Blue In 1942 Hitler stated in private, I shall have no peace of mind until I have planted a seed of Nordic blood wherever the population stand in need of regeneration. If at the time of the migrations, while the great racial currents were exercising their influence, our people received so varied a share of attributes, these latter blossomed to their full value only because of the presence of the Nordic racial nucleus Enjoy the read dude

      multicon - 2011-04-06 16:18

      Not the answer I asked for, I know all about that, I'm talking about the greek, italian etc. killings as you said dude.

  • neilswinfarius - 2011-04-05 09:52


      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 10:44

      True, but as with ALL potential political dispensations ( Facism, Marxism, Moaism, Apartheid, Socialism, Capitalism, Democracy etc) they all seem good on paper. Everyone will have enough of everything and the "responsible wise" leaders can do no wrong. But its when those leaders at the top are rotten then the whole system becomes twisted. Nazi can and did work, until the leaders started twisting it to their own evil ways. Apartheid as deisgned by the Nats before 1948 was supposed to create a federation of South Africa where each group controlled their own state, voted for their own leaders and these leaders would then loosely control the whole country, much like the European Union of today. What went wrong is race, greed, paranoia and lust to have power at all costs twisted was originally a noble thought into something that became an abomination.

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 11:57

      @Uwe Klopfer you racist pig!! there was nothing noble about apartheid!! You're a disgusting human being!!!

      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 13:07

      @thangy : you missed my point. Read the whole statement. The original thought was a noble one. I am sure Karl Marx and Moa Tse Tung were convinced their idiologies were noble too. It got hijacked by power hungry greedy people that used many excuses to justify their actions. Was apartheid wrong ? For sure, in the way they implemented it. The original idea was supposed to give each "nation" their own country, to run their own affairs, toi care for their own people, to educate their own people. Remember that in the 1910s en 1920s when the ORIGINAL ideology was developed 99.99% of the zulus lived in zululand, 99.99% of the xhosas where in the eastern cape etc. But those who were obsessed with control and with power wanted everything, to control everyone. And that is where the original idea became a twisted manifestation of control, subjugation and absolute power. Hitler originally wanted to make Germany a powerful and respected world player again. But he, just like Stalin, Mao, the "elite afrikaners", Mugabe, Gadaffi etc. became obsessed with power. They took the power that was given to them (or which they took with force sometimes) and twisted and abused it for their own beliefs and benefits. No one group has the right to suppress and control and dominate another with force, it doesn't matter why, whether it is based on race, sex, culture, religion or political beliefs. So don't you dare say to me i am a racist pig, if i am one you are a stupid darkie. Take your pick.

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 14:08

      @Uwe Klopfer let me start by apologizing for calling you a racist. On your logic "The original idea was supposed to give each "nation" their own country" all europeans shoulda gone back to europe to their countries, why must africans share their land and allow europeans a right to their own country on our land whereas the same would never be considered in europe??

      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 14:10

      @thangy : The original idea that was used for their own gain by the NP which became known as apartheid was to give every group their own. But they thought they were superior and were convinced they had the devine right to have everything in south Africa, guess what ? They were wrong. Instead of giving everyone their fair share and the oppurtunity to become the best they could be. The NP decided who was and who was not good enough, based on nothing more than the colour of their skin. How completely and utterly short sighted can you get ? Take myself for example. I know I am intelligent and have an IQ higher than most, does that make me better than others ? Better than blacks ? No it doesnt, there are better people in the world than me, black and white. There are smarter balcks, more creative black and black people who are simply better people than me. But i am the best i can be. And i always strive to improve.

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 14:49

      @Uwe Klopfer Well said!

      Uwe Klopfer - 2011-04-05 15:05

      @thangy : apology accepted, thanks ! i understand your point that europenas (whites) should have gone back to europe. but they didn't. We are all stuck here together in the here and now. do we start a civil war on it ? No we don't, lots of people will die on both sides. And in the end what will be left ? a bunch of wide eyed starving people that are so "out of it" that they will keep fighting but not know why they are fighting anymore. Each of us was born where they were born. Can't change that. White have brought lots of good things to africa, no doubt. But they brought lots of bad things as well. Especially their greed and disregard of anything not european. But i dont consider myself european. Yes i am white, but i am african, i love this country and i love all the good people in it. This is my home and i have just as much right as the next person to be here. We are born with the right for a place in the sun, and damn anyone who says otherwise. We are here together, we have to make it work or we are all doomed. and the only way to make it work is together.

  • MadMatt_88 - 2011-04-05 09:59

    Communist propaganda.

  • umlaut - 2011-04-05 10:02

    Is the neo-nazi movement growing in Germany, or are they just concentrated in one area, (like our Orania)? If they are growing then one must go and look for the reasons why. Maybe they are feeling threatened by immigration of other groups that are robbing the Germans of their culture and values and now their bad behaviour is actually harming the German culture also. Or they could be just a group of trouble makers trying to dominate and to fulfill their lust for power. Treat other people as you want to be treated yourself-- so if they make life a misery for others then the German police must harass them constantly also, on any petty thing they can find that they may be doing wrong.

      Verbatim - 2011-04-05 10:39

      Since when is Orania neo Nazi? Its blithering idiots like yourself that have no clue what it means to be an Afrikaner or why the people of Orania decided to settle there on their own terms. Check your brain into neutral before you make a complete idiot out of yourself.

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 11:08

      WHAT? Are you for real umlaut? Jeez, is that what you think Orania is about.

      BernieK - 2011-04-05 11:38

      I think this is the result of a Western Europe that became one big lame duck allowing all sorts of people to flock to Europe from the Islamic world and from Africa and elsewhere. So, now with economies in dire straights people are asking what are all these outlandish people doing in their countries? It is BECAUSE of the liberal way of doing things in Europe that a backlash is building up and it is going to go much further than one would think. The white man in general is slowly fading away worldwide and there will be this kind of reaction because they feel threatened. In 100 years time a white skin person will be a rare sight....the world will be mulato brown and the white man will become extinct like the bushman of southern africa. Have a look around you everywhere. All white populations are plummeting worldwide and in 30 years time the Chinese will follow suit. China is also becoming a massive old age home, so is Japan and Korea etc etc and so there will be these kind of uprisings. Europe is slowly growing tired of being so liberal. Europe now wants to look after itself and it is about time I would say. This rightish movement is not just a German thing, it is the whole of Europe. On their doorstep is the teeming middle east, what will happen if the people from the middle east tries to overrun Europe? I think it is allready too late. Europe is becoming Eurabia in any case, so let us see how this pans out.

      Ross - 2011-04-05 11:42

      Orania is one of the few solvent communities in South Africa. The murder rate is 0%, the burglary rate is 0% and children can play in the streets at night. They have some of the best schools in South Africa and a very disciplined youth. School pregnancies are also 0%.

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 11:46

      Yes BernieK, you are correct. Parties that tends to lean to the right are getting more support. I guess Europeans are fed up with immigrants (legal and illegal) demanding stuff from their new governments.

      Irené - 2011-04-05 12:45

      all i know is oranje is going to shit- like all other idealistic states- whatever their beliefs are- i dont care- but their whole model is unsustainable and kinda sad. oh and POP101- the two are quite the same- since both groups are separatists. @ Ross- sure sounds like heaven- also your children will grow up in seclusion and with distorted views of the world and our country. @ Bernie K- dude- I think you have a paranoid android on your shoulder- white man is at no more risk to become extinct than any other race on earth- the issue is that Europeans spent the greater half of a millennia plundering and pillaging the rest of the world- murdering and taking slaves as they wanted- now that the powers are more equitable- all you white supremacists are running for the hills crying foul. How on earth can one race just become extinct?? Obviously you have not seen the breeding abilities of young white UK mothers. People breed way to fast to just become extinct. Oh also, part of the reason so many muslims are moving to europe is because the western powers invaded their countries- took over their biggest industries like oil- and then left the civilians in poverty and without porper drinking water. I can see you werent a politics, philosophy or sociology major- maybe you should stick to your day job.

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 13:13

      Hey, it's the hippie girl. You and me are both humans, but we are definitely not the same, :p. Just because these two groups are separatists doesn't mean they are the same. And so what if your child grow up in seclusion. Don't we already lock them up behind 2m walls when the sun goes down, you know, because of crime and stuff. Don't you wait at the gate to make sure your child is safe from the car to the school front door. But from all of this, I find your comment to BernieK the most amusing, attacking the man for simply stating facts.

      Irené - 2011-04-05 14:00

      You're right Pop, they are not exactly the same- however they share the same mentality and sentiments. Being a separatist only encourages extremism- of all forms. Are you trying to say there are no towns in SA that are safe to bring up your children? I beg to differ, there are hundreds of towns that can offer your kids a happy childhood- you do not have to have your own republic to be safe. I dont see what facts BernieK brought up- it's just his beliefs- sure many countries in the world have a huge population of old people- and that is putting strain on economies- but there is no facts to back up the notion that white people will become extinct. That is just super paranoid. There will always be changes in cultural populations- but to think there is a conspiracy against white people smells of Afrikaner paranoia- I as an afrikaner welcome my brothers from other mothers into my life as I believe they have enriched my life. South Africa has never and will never will be a homogeneous culture- make peace with it- in my opinion people who fall back to their primitive "us and them" mentality do not have place in the 21st century.

      Verbatim - 2011-04-05 14:11

      @Irene - And the proof of your weed induced halfwit comment about Oranie is where exactly? Have you ever been there? They have been around longer than you methinks. Lay off the shrooms and stop smoking giggletwigs, its affecting the little bit of a brain you had to begin with.

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 14:53

      Not really Irene, I think the people from Orania are more thinking in the direction of, "Just leave us alone, we don't bother you, don't bother us", while neo-nazi's are more inclined to use hard core patriotism as a way of justifying their "barbaric" actions. And that's the major difference for me. You are right, you don't need your own republic to be safe, BUT you need your own property and family to be safe, but it seems that not even that is a certainty anymore. No matter where you live in close your windows, lock your doors (twice or three times), set the alarm, because you never know. If not, then you are a delusional fool risking each and every family members life. Oh but wait, we all have distorted views of our country and you are in fact the only one which are correct...shame. Also, "us and them" existed since when two prehistoric caveman clans met for the first time. My guess is, it won't disappear in the near future, and people who denies this have no place in the 21st century.

      Irené - 2011-04-05 15:07

      @ verbatim- where do you come off telling me I'm taking too much psychedelic drugs?? because POP called me a hippie? He calls me that because of previous discussions on News 24- I am an environmentalist and fight for animal rights- that does not mean I take drugs of any sorts- what in my comment makes you think I'm high??? Oh and ofcourse you will insult my intelligence- Just because you cant/wont debate a point does not make your opponent stupid, it makes you ignorant. But obviously all of us multicultural loving liberals are just a bunch of stoners arent we??? You know I would prefer if all you holier than thou Afrikaans Xtian separatists want to muck off to the Vrystaat - apparently it's the piece of land your God reserved for you in this 'godforsaken continent'.

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 15:47

      @Verbatim @pop101 Orania is a the last bastion of the seperatist afrikaaner (note I didn't generalise all Afrikaaners) who hold a great emotional resentment of rival communities, be it Black White or Asian. This town spews propaganda by those (racist cowards if you ask me) who hope to gain politically from intergroup conflict and hatred. This town of people suffer a geopolitical power vacuum from the breakup of the apartheid regime and this is where this paranoid lot will waste away. Orania is a racial seperatist community, no matter how much you ridicule others like @Irené this option is not sustainable

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 16:00

      Thangy, isn't that what democracy is all about? They knew they won't fit in, so they excused themselves and went to sit quietly in the corner. "This town spews propaganda by those (racist cowards if you ask me) who hope to gain politically from intergroup conflict and hatred"...can't agree with you there. Never seen front page news about Nazi like propaganda spewed from Orania, more than any other town in SA. In fact, I almost forgot it existed till this article. Listen, I'm going to start to sound like a racist myself trying to defend Orania, so I better stop. Let's think of Orania an old age home.

      Irené - 2011-04-05 16:02

      Thangy for president! thankfully thangys writing is more eloquent than my own- very nicely written

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 16:10

      @pop101 What are you talking about, they reside within the walls of OUR country (by "our" i mean real South Africans), they have not excluded themselves!! I once view a documentary about Orania, believe me, seperatist propaganda is even taught to little children! they were so backward that the wouldn't even allow the black camera man in. Don't you recognize that we live in a modern, global scociety? I really feel sad for those little children growing up with fear and indoctrinated hate, that for me is the worse thing about Orania, that these children are literally being being robbed of all the world has to offer. There is really nothing good about the place

      Thangy - 2011-04-05 16:11

      @Irené Funny you say that, I was at my PC chanting Irené for president!!

      pop101 - 2011-04-05 16:51

      I'm a bit confused, in your opinion are they or aren't they "real South-Africans". Please explain. Mmmm, I think separatist propaganda is not exclusively taught to children in Orania. Pick your town in SA...from Soweto to Cape Town. There will always be people who thinks differently than you and I. In this case they chose to clan together. In your mind they may be "backward", but for them it is a case of principle and belief. BTW, didn't Zuma and Malema visit them not so long ago. Yes, we live in a modern, global society, but a lot of communities over the world (within Democratic countries) prefer to live a certain unconventional way whether for political or religious reasons/believes (eg. Amish Mennonites, German Brethren, Quakers, Buddhist Monks). Do you want to deny them that right because you and I are living in a modern, global society?

      Thangy - 2011-04-06 09:31

      @pop101 Its a problem when separatism is based on race wouldnt you agree?

  • Boxertronic - 2011-04-05 10:58

    @neilswinfarius , dumb statement . A choice by a select few People doesnt refer to all

  • Will2.0 - 2011-04-05 11:00

    Wow, a large music festival attended by a few hundred people. Anybody else feel that maybe the neo-nazi threat might also be exaggerated?

      ridgeback60 - 2011-04-05 12:20

      No, it's not exaggerated. They are one couple, who probably ask people they know to help out. Village people are home-bodies, so to attend something in another zone is a major trip. They are just two people trying to do their best under very vindictive circumstances. Give them their due. What would you do, if 80% of your community was aggressive towards you?

  • aluwaninone - 2011-04-05 12:04

    why can't the whole o AWB move to this town...they will be more than welcomed

  • ridgeback60 - 2011-04-05 12:15

    Europe has a lot of emotionally-displaced people. Like bikers' clubs, gangs, book-clubs, religious sects etc., it fulfils the need to 'belong' (hence the success of the Moonies sect). To this day, brainwashing horrific ideologies are passed from the older generations to their follow-ups, and old hatreds are never buried, the leaders with whom they identify become deities, and reason goes up in smoke. I'm not sure that legislation and more laws can conquer this type of mess, unless it's to try doing what those non-involved residents are already doing - stay put, not be bullied, and make themselves visible. There's a lot of safety in the media believe it or not.

  • Panzerballett - 2011-04-05 12:38

    Big lies from Mainstream Media and two ugly sick lefties which want to bring jamel multiculti, nothing more ! Greetings from Germany

      Hardtail - 2011-04-05 13:42

      agreed. mainstream media is full of lies.

      MadMatt_88 - 2011-04-05 15:06

      88 brother.

  • Mel - 2011-04-05 14:14

    This whole entitlement that people in SA seem to have is one of this counnties biggest downfall (it is rapidly going downhill) Apartheid was terribel, the Nazi regime was evil. 99% of people in Germany feel the same way & are ot proud of what happened. I believe the same is true for SA. We have been through 1 whole generation at school. BEE & AA should be a thing of the past as well as feeling entitled to certain 'things'. @ThaThruth: By all means we can teach our children what happened in the past; we should; I learned my countries history in Germany. But it is time to build bridge & get over it! Take control of you life & your future. Dont hold on to all these feelings and make a change. As long as people wont let go and accept histoy as HISTORY there will be not lasting change. This country needs to move on - i didnt say forget- because otherwise we will end up as a 3rd worlrd country soon.

  • allnet - 2011-04-06 08:55

    u lot only publish watch is convenient to news24 ???????? where is my comment???????

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