Rather kill too many - Norway attacker

2011-07-24 22:48

OSLO, July 24 - The blond killer of at least 93 people in Norway sees himself as a righteous crusader on a mission to save European "Christendom" from a tide of Islam.

Multi-culturalism is one of the dirtiest words in Anders Behring Breivik's political vocabulary.

Don't expect remorse from the 32-year-old who massacred leftist youngsters on a summer camp island and bombed central Oslo buildings occupied by Norway's Labour-led government.

In a rambling, plagiaristic manifesto posted just before his killing spree began, Breivik says the Knights Templar, a medieval order of crusading warriors, lent modern renown by Dan Brown's best-sellers, had been re-formed in London in 2002.

Two of the founding members were British while one each came from France, Germany, the Netherlands, Greece, Russia, Norway and Serbia, Breivik writes, without naming them.

"The order is to serve as an armed Indigenous Rights Organisation and as a Crusader Movement [anti-Jihad movement]," writes Breivik, now in police custody on terrorism charges.

"Once you decide to strike, it is better to kill too many than not enough, or you risk reducing the desired ideological impact of the strike," he writes, outlining deadly tactics that al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden might have endorsed.

"Do not apologise, make excuses or express regret for you are acting in self-defence in a pre-emptive manner," he adds.

Breivik's lawyer says his client admits his actions, but feels that "what he has done does not deserve punishment".

The killer's statement may show a mind influenced by the fantasy imagery of computer games, but he also includes an 80-day diary chronicling meticulous preparations for his onslaught.

Interspersed with accounts of his struggle to make explosives, he tells of watching the Eurovision song contest on TV and episodes of The Shield, a violent US crime series.

Explaining to God

On June 11 he says he prayed for the first time in a long time.

"I explained to God that unless he wanted the Marxist-Islamist alliance and the certain Islamic takeover of Europe to completely annihilate European Christendom within the next hundred years, he must ensure that the warriors fighting for the preservation of European Christendom prevail."

Two days later his entry gleefully describes how he tested a bomb device in a remote area. "I lit the fuse, went out of range and waited. It was probably the longest 10 seconds I have ever endured... BOOM! The detonation was successful!!!:)"

Large chunks of the 1 500-page document are cut and pasted from other far-right, anti-Islam documents on the internet.

Some are copied from writings by "Unabomber" Ted Kaczynski, notorious in the United States for killing three people and wounding more than 20 with letter bombs sent from 1978 to 1995.

Breivik changed some words to stress what he sees as the dangers of mixing cultures.

Where the Unabomber wrote, "One of the most widespread manifestations of the craziness of our world is leftism", Breivik's text puts "multi-culturalism" instead of leftism.

Breivik says he is not against immigrants who integrate and reserves much of his fury for a liberal European political establishment he views as promoting Europe's destruction.

Though the document shows the killer as a fantasist, his anti-immigration ideas are not so far from mainstream European politics, not least in Norway, where the populist, anti-immigration Populist Party is the second largest in parliament.

Turning point

The manifesto shows that Breivik was an active player of the World of Warcraft computer game and some of the imagery in a video clip accompanying the document seems inspired by such themes.

The writings and the video also seem to be a reverse echo of the propaganda of Islamic militant groups - from the very religion that he sees as a threat to Europe.

Breivik writes that the "turning point" in his thinking came due to Norway's involvement in the Nato operation to bomb Serbia in 1999 in the Kosovo conflict.

"All they [the Serbs] wanted was to drive out Islam by deporting the Albanian Muslims back to Albania."

  • stuart.steedman - 2011-07-24 23:22

    Hoo boy this cat is a special breed of crazy. I don't believe in Hell, but I do hope at some point in his very long incarceration, he understands the magnitude of the pain he's inflicted on a hundred families. Either way, his religious-inspired ideology will never see the light of day, and I can take a measure of comfort from that.

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-25 07:59

      All these so called secret orders like The Knights Templar, Free Masons, The Illuminati and Opus Dei are nothing more but silly mens clubs. It’s childish nonsense.

      Krush - 2011-07-25 08:11

      What a chop. If he was a christian he shouldnt be murdering. LOVE YOUR ENEMY. Really sad when people do things in "the name of God" when God has nothing to do with their sick little twisted fantasy of power and control.

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-25 08:23

      You will NEVER find an atheist killing in the name of atheism.

      slojam - 2011-07-25 08:54

      @John - And so John, is there a problem with adding a bit of colour to Europe? You seem to fit into the same category of this madman if not in the same as our old hated apartheid leaders!

      brown_bread - 2011-07-25 09:01

      John, if that's your concern, why dont we (while at it) bring back all the Europeans from USA? They have after-all out-bred all the native american population! Status quo is for the simple minded - get it through your skull that things WILL change in the next 100 years, they did in the last.

      brown_bread - 2011-07-25 09:42

      Of course I'll get the thumbs down - its only good when the shoe is on the other foot. Not bothered though, I expected that from the simple minded, status quo loving 'im better than everyone' else...I pity the earth for being inhabited by self righteous beings.

      Gorilla - 2011-07-25 09:57

      Sad to say though, but a lot of Right Wing Militant Types see that governments are not doing enough to curb influxes of other cultures, things like this are inevitable.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:09

      @ Risen Ape - maybe not in the name of atheism, but here's one... take the Columbine school shootings. They shot a girl just because she believed in God; they shot a boy just because he was black; the one shooter's t-shirt read "natural selection" and they said of one victim "he doesn't deserve the jawbone evolution gave him; look for it, it will not be on his body". (indeed a fair few school shootings are along the line, check the one in Finland a few years back). Or Kip Kinkel who murdered his family and tried to kill a cop in jail, who said afterwards "there is no God, only hate". They may not have quoted atheism as their reason, but they were hardly religious nuts were they and look at the mentality in their quotes... Still, not everyone who shares their religious worldview is automatically a murderer, not at all!

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:09

      @ Risen Ape - btw, agreed on the boys clubs you listed.

      b-boy - 2011-07-25 10:45

      @John @Michael So what if Europe is full of Africans and Pakistanis? What about the time You Europeans took over Africa ? Why can't a person stay where they want to? would you guys prefer each Race stay in their own corner of the world. You guys are both cowards I would like to see you repeat your comments in front of people not behind you PC's

      pierreedge - 2011-07-25 10:59

      John, dont try to hide your racist poison and admiration for this extremist with a semblance of moderation. You appear to excuse this neo nazi monster with your post. I WAS in Paris a few months ago, i was in various cities actually in France and i DIDNT feel that i was in Africa or pakistan. BUT when i go to Sandton or Fourways, i do feel i am in europe with all the whites in an African country. So by following your logic, i hope you are planning to leave South Africa and go back to your country soon. The same applies to the 74 repressed morons who gave a thumbs up and enjoy living in Africa as whites but bash Africans living in Europe, you can get the hell out of here, we wont miss you.

      Sharief - 2011-07-25 11:00

      Stuart=you say u dont beleive in hell...well u better believe in the opposite of heaven cause this nuts going there

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-25 11:31

      @ Matt:_) The shootings at that school were random. And the girl that said she believed in god was actually spared by the shooters although she was wounded in the chest by stray shotgun pellets.

      stuart.steedman - 2011-07-25 11:33

      @Matt bad news mate, that whole "shot for being Christian thing" turned out to largely be a fabrication on the part of the media. If you're going to try prove a point, at least use real facts to back it up.

      stuart.steedman - 2011-07-25 11:40

      Well done @Michael, you've finally come out of your shell and admitted that you are a closet, right-wing fundamentalist murderous bucket of vomit. I'm sure your Lord and Saviour would be so proud to see you carrying this fine torch of Christian tradition. This just serves as reinforcement that Christians really can be the most hypocritical bastards on this planet. And for all of those shouting "T3H MUSLIMS ARE COMINGG!!!1", I would suggest you go back to your original countries then, since your world view prohibits immigration. Mankind has always moved around, humanity and population is not a race. And @Sharief, I'm no more afraid of your taunt of hell than you would be if I told you that when you die you would be chased around by a clown made of strawberry jelly. Both are equal parts nonsense.

      pierreedge - 2011-07-25 11:49

      Lies Lies and more Lies Micheal. I see you got scared and removed your message where you advocated putting bombs in Saudi, dont worry, News24 still has a trace, they'll get you, Second supporting the murder of civilian as you did in your removed message is not an opinion, it's criminal. As for a church in Saudi, being ignorant, i guess you dont know that's like the headquarters of the muslim business, so i will reply with another question, have you seen a mosque in the vatican??? But there are churches in several other muslim countries, turkey, egypt, tunisia, even Iran so what's your point? As for hallal in South AFrica, this shows again your intorleance and racism, neo naziness.

      winter123 - 2011-07-25 12:30

      OMG! I'm so sick of people f*cking up in the name of religion!!! STOP already! Too many problems stem from being fanatically religious, people cannot keep a balance between what the Book says and real life!

      slojam - 2011-07-25 14:34

      @Micheal - Do you think the Pope will give me permission to build a mosque in the Vatican? The sam eapplies to Saudi Arabia! I have seen many Churches and Temples in many Muslim coutries. Go to Malaysia, Egypt, Morroco, Somalia, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait and Indonesia. Infact, Indonesia with one of the highest Muslim population in the world has and island called Bali (for the ignorant few that didnt know) That is 95% NON-MUSLIM! Pull that finger out of your arse... It seems to be distorting your view! Secondly, Do you think the west which relies on more than a billion Muslims worldwide could afford not to have the Muslims buying their products? Well my friend, the only way thats going to happen is if the products are HALAAL! Like it or not, Halaal food is a Trillion dollar industry that the West cannot miss out on! So, if you see a Halaal stamp on any food... dont buy it! You may just die of starvation in the next few years!

      Zee - 2011-07-25 14:57

      @Michael - there are by FAR more non-halaal stores than halaal. If the owner of a butchery/restaurant feels that he wants to increase revenue by also catering to a decent chunk of the population then that's his prerogitive. Most halaal establishments in Cape Town are Muslim-owned so what's the problem? Don't shop there then, and go to a non-halaal shop. You have a choice. Use it. SA is also a secular country, not a Christian one? Admittedly, Arabia is very intolerant of other religions. But then blame Arabs, and not Muslims. Have you seen the beautiful churches in Turkey, Iraq, Iran (yup thats right), Malaysia, Indonesia, Bahrain, Qatar? Is a Muslim allowed to build a church in the Vatican? Christian Missionaries are constantly at the traffic lights, wanting to know if I've accepted Jesus, and I don't mind even though I'm not Christian. I have never encountered a Muslim or Jew come up and ask me if I've accepted their faith. You have some serious blinkers on. Ignorance blinkers.

      Michael - 2011-07-25 15:34

      Well, for starters I didn't remove my posts, News24 moderator did. Its fine by me, although I am merely voicing my opinion and I leave it to the readers to give thumbs up or down. Some readers like @stuart.steedman feels using questionable language to express their anger just because he differs in opinion. I think you have an ego issue with attention deficit disorder hence you like to be the 1st person to make comments on news24 :-) @pierreedge I firmly believe you should get PC Training as clearly your terrorist fighting agenda is misguided. You should focus on taking down terrorist's propaganda websites not running I.P trace just because I differ in an opinion. I don't incite violence nor support killing innocent people. I am merely voicing my concern over overwhelming influx of Muslim faith into what previously were Christian dominated zones and how Christian faith is diminishing due to many reasons. 1. Islam immigration 2. Increase in family size 3. Rapid growth in building Mosques. @john I agree with you... where is freedom of speech? @Zee & @slojam I am agree with you , Halaal cert. food is a big business which is here to stay. My argument is, why isn't there a Christian Foundation that can place logo's on food products? And yes, Its difficult to find products in SA which are not Halaal. Why are the consumers not able to choose who they want to support? PS: My condolences to those that have lost loved ones in Norway massacre

      slojam - 2011-07-25 16:02

      @Micheal - And who stops Christian organizations from forming Certification authorities to makes sure that the food is sold to the satisfaction of Christianity? Who says you cannot choose? If you dont like it, DONT BUY IT!

      pierreedge - 2011-07-25 16:17

      Ohh, how convenient, changing your story hey.. So you don't incite violence nor support killing innocent people. you are merely voicing my concern over overwhelming influx of Muslim faith bla bla bla Funny, i recall clearly your previous post stating that instead of bombing norway, he should have put bombs in saudi arabia, but of course, your memory wont recall that very conveniently. You should get logic training as your messages are totally incoherent. Example: the Christian faith is decreasing because of immigration LOL so Christian who had a strong faith are loosing that slowly and think that islam is not so bad and they should convert??? what non sense. It's not decreasing because people use their judgment and realise that this religion business doesnt make sense maybe ANyway, keep not inciting violence like that, it always something

      TheWally - 2011-07-25 16:53

      @tt uneducated Micheal: The original Church of John the Baptist is in Saudi Arabia, Christians still attend that freely and the Head of that Church gives his sermon in arabic and uses the Word ALLAH for GOD. So much for your lack of education...

      daaivark - 2011-07-26 07:12

      Well said, pierreedge

      PDP - 2011-07-26 09:46

      @thewally, History The Church of St. John the Baptist is in Jerusalem's Christian Quarter. The Church of St. John the Baptist was founded in the 5th century, probably around 450-60 under the empress Eudokia. It is possible the church was built due to the presence here of the relics of John the Baptist, which were sent to various cities in the 4th century including Jerusalem. The church was restored by the Patriarch of Alexandria after its destruction by the Persians in 614. The church was extensively rebuilt over the original foundations in the 11th century. Aside from the modern facade with its two small bell towers, the Church of St. John the Baptist has remained mostly unchanged for almost 1,000 years. The present church was built by the merchants of Amalfi and became the headquarters of the Knights Hospitallers. In 1099, many Christian knights who were wounded during the seige of Jerusalem were cared for in this church. After their recovery, some of the grateful knights dedicated themselves to helping the sick and protecting pilgrims to the Holy Land. Calling themselves the Knights of the Hospital of St. John, they later developed into the military order of the Hospitallers, who played a key role in the defense of the Holy Land.

  • Barney Stinson - 2011-07-24 23:22

    Religious fundamentalism is stupid bro.. Barney Stinson disapproves.. The world needs more awesome people!! Also, read the Bro-code, its very good.

      Human - 2011-07-25 07:13


      PunkBuster - 2011-07-25 11:53

      Suit up Barney...

  • meelo - 2011-07-24 23:42

    If you tired of Islam why kill Christians and you are Christian yourself. Raises questions.

      Johann M - 2011-07-25 05:55

      He is obviously not a Christian

      Enlightened - 2011-07-25 07:53

      Uhm....trying to protect European, not Christian at all...hmmm

      Mad Hatter - 2011-07-25 08:38

      Its called crazy , by definition should void all attempts at logical explanantion

      VC - 2011-07-25 08:44

      Spot on!! There ar many more questions, like why dit the police take so long to respond, could one man realy kill so many people in such a short time? Look at our own crazies and also American ones, ours managed obout 7 and the American's not more than 30, and then there were more than one??

      slojam - 2011-07-25 08:55

      A fundamentalist perhaps?

      G-spotWizard - 2011-07-25 09:57

      This demon possesed individual is no christian by any measure. things like this happen when satan or a demon takes on a human body.The bible says that the thief(satan) comes but to kill and destroy. So it clear to see who inspired this sick individual.

  • fragtion - 2011-07-25 00:37

    What would Jesus do? This? Of course not. Christianity is embracing, welcoming, unconditional and centred around Freedom of the Will. Christianity gives the man no right to act the way he did - quite the contrary, one of the 10 commandments is "Thou shalt not kill"... Yet the media has blown out of proportion that he's "Christian" go figure? Like hell. That's NOT Christianity at all

      Jayxer - 2011-07-25 01:22

      Of course that's true but this is not murder this is war! What about all of the battles in the old testament when God was fighting for the Isrealites and the Israelites won? The muslims love declaring war against us but "if God is on our side who can be against us?"

      stuart.steedman - 2011-07-25 06:56

      Christians kill all the time. It's no surprise for instance that the people actively lobbying for the Death Penalty are almost always attached to a Christian organization. It's like you guys miss the whole "thou shalt not kill" to mean "thou shalt not kill except where I feel like it"

      Nicolai - 2011-07-25 07:49

      I agree with Stuart 100%. Religion is the mother of all killers. Religion causes suffering in so many countries. What would Jesus do? Nothing...he is likely made up...Just like Zeus, just like Allah, just like Ra, Scientology and Santa Claus.

      Ozymandios - 2011-07-25 07:53

      This man claims he is a Christian yet he writes he prayed to God before he went on this rampage but hadn't done so in a very long time. Now that sort of bothers me if he is what he says he is - a Christian? I too am worreid about the rise in the populations of Islam in Europe and the USA, but going out and slaughtering 80 odd teenagers be they Norwegians or Islamic children is not going to make people rush to join you crack pot Knights Templars. If anything it has done just the opposite. Weeders in Holland also is fearful of the Islamic growth in Holland and Europe but he doesn't go and kill people like this - he doesn't kill them at all. I for one will definitely wish this man gets strunbg up by his neck for doing this. I don't like Juliarse Dilema one bit but I won't condone someone going out there and blowing him away though I am sure many would wish that for him.You just replace such a nut case with another who is more violent and looney. I can assure the world this man's actions in Norway have not bothered the crackpot Islamic fundamentalists one bit. They most probably cheered when they heard the news.The definitely are not going to disband over this looney's actions.

      Nicolai - 2011-07-25 08:12

      "What would Jesus do? This? Of course not. Christianity is embracing, welcoming, unconditional and centered around Freedom of the Will." Actually my friend, if you look at history, Christianity has always been about blood shed. The Crusades, the Dark ages, The Spanish Inquisition. Even in your bible...God himself Slaughtered the entire planets population with a flood...asked a father to kill his son to prove his loyalty...the list goes on and on. This kid killed what, 100 people or so? Very sad. All life has Value...Well God then killed\murdered\slaughtered the entire Planets population save Noah and a few others. A God of Love? Yeah right. A God of Death and destruction is more likely. Using this...what would Jesus do? Send another flood. Murder all people who doesn't believe in him. That sounds more correct based on the bible and proven history...

      JohannV - 2011-07-25 08:58

      Whoooooo, Nicolai! Another angry atheist! Why are you guys always so angry at believers? Maybe the hunger for something deeper, like you know your soul deserves salvation, but you're too proud to ask God? Repent, brother, just bow down. That's all it takes, and you'll be elevated to unknown heights! :-)

      VC - 2011-07-25 09:02

      Some corrections here. The crusades were the Roman Catholic church killing Protestant Christians because they did not want to buy their absolution from the pope, and were reading the Bible for themselves. Now because the Catholics proclaim to be a Christian organization all these gets laid in front of the Christians door. THE ROMAN CATHLIC CHURCH IS NOT A CHRISTIAN ORGANIZATION, they just say they are. No person can forgive your sins, you cannot pay someone to forgive your sins ,only GOD can. If you read the Bible you would see the prophecies about the Catholic church.

      VC - 2011-07-25 09:07

      This is actually why my forefathers came to Africa, to escape prosecution from the Catholic church, but seems everybody all of a sudden forgotten that??

      daaivark - 2011-07-25 09:36

      Why are we so angry at believers Johann V? Take a quick look at virtually any page here and you will see somne or other awful thing done in the name of some or other religion. Then ask that question again.

      Lab-Rat - 2011-07-25 09:39

      LOL @ JohannV - We're not angry atheists, we see people killing and doing very bad things in the name of their religion and at the end of the day, it's all made up. It's not only frustrating for us thinking people but it's also sad that so many people can't think for themselves and see religion for what it is. Religion is merely just a tool that is used to control the weaker minded individuals in society. There is no excuse anymore since the advent of the internet that people should be so mis-informed about life!

      daaivark - 2011-07-25 09:42

      "Repent"????? WHAT FOR? We're not the lunatics shooting and blowing up people.

      chappy - 2011-07-25 09:43

      You can't blame religion itself, it's the idiots that practice fundamentalist religion. Both Christianity and Islam are intended to be peaceful and are based on the same principles, but both sides have groups that have misinterpreted and twisted the basic principles into something violent. What is happening today with the Muslim extremists is not all that different to what the Christians did during the Crusades. Even close to home, the French Huguenots came to SA to escape the butchering that was being dished out by the Catholic Church in the 1600's on the Calvinists (Christians killing Christians.... idiots). Or to dumb it down a notch; Hate the player not the game..

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:15

      @ Nicolai - what's the alternative? Take just two atheist countries, devoid of religion - USSR under Stalin and China with Mao's Revolution. Total casualties up to about 170-million. And guys, News24 has laid a trap for you and you're falling for it... media overseas barely mentions "Christian" if at all, but News24 is stating it as a "fact" because his FB profile says so. Gee, then it MUST be true... but I suspect News24 is throing it around more than it should to get us to comment more...

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:18

      @ Stuart - so if the death penalty is bad, do you agree with what a place like SA is becoming? Rather let criminals run around, serve soft sentences, get out early on good behaviour... the Bible says of the death penalty that it should only be carried out if there are 2-3 witnesses, so that it's beyond reasonable doubt. As you moan about the death penalty, remember that this madman will spend the rest of his live in prison, being fed and educated better than those living on the outside, at the expense of the Norwegian taxpayers, i.e. his victims... and for the relatives of the victims, where's their closure? What if he escaped and went after them? What if he doesn't get life in jail (eg in Holland you cannot get a sentence longer than 20 years, ever, not sure about Norway's laws)?

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:22

      @ Nicolai - with respect to Catholics, the church's atrocities were crried out when Europe was Catholic-only. Inquisitions were for a large part against Christians post-reformation - this is the reason there are white people in SA in the first place (look at "Huguenots") - know your history too bud :-)

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:25

      @ VC - exactly!!!

      cerveza - 2011-07-25 10:54

      @VC - not only is the Roman Catholic church not Christian, no-one is, they just say they are. It is all just about belonging to a club and to control people. Show me a person that lives by the following verse and you show me a Christian, everyone else is just abusing the Bible and Jesus for their own selfish agendas "Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you."

      stuart.steedman - 2011-07-25 11:45

      So to sum up what you're saying, @Matt: "Thou shalt not kill" coupled with "thou shalt kill as long as people turn it into a spectator sport." ...and you wonder why people say the Bible is contradictory. Also, I don't know about you, but I don't want our ANC government having the power to decide who lives and who dies. These are a group of idiots who couldn't make a decent cup of tea, and now you want them to have the power to play executioner. Be careful watch you wish for...

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 12:25

      @ Stuart - so let me get this straight. Instead of the death penalty, you would rather send someone to jail for the rest of their lives, where they can get free health care, free education, free food, free accommodation, but still vote? And while prison may be a slight deterrent in SA because they're so awful, in places like Norway prisons are better than many 3-star resorts! "Thou shalt not kill" coupled with "thou shalt kill as long as people turn it into a spectator sport." No... thou shalt not kill at all, but punishment for certain bad things may be death, provided there are 2-3 witnesses to prevent wrongful execution. What's wrong with that? Death of a proven madman/evil SOB does more than just remove the person from the face of the earth. The victims have closure. Imagine that a woman gets raped and her rapist gets a few years in jail - she will live with fear that he will get out and do it again, or see them again. Were he topped, she'd have closure that justice was done and can rebuild her life. Now note that Norway by law cannot mete out a jail term longer than 21 years, except if he were to be judged a possible repeat offender. So if this man claims insanity or promises never to do it again, he can be out by 2032-2033. "Closure"...

      Nicolai - 2011-07-25 13:28

      "Whoooooo, Nicolai! Another angry atheist! Why are you guys always so angry at believers?" Dude. This has nothing to do with what you suggest. I think most atheists are just so tired of seeing humans kill each other for no reason. Christians kill muslims, vice versa etc etc. So much senseless hate, killing and anger over beliefs. People have wrong impressions about Atheists really. Atheists value ALL life. Not based on skin colour, religion etc. We seek to better ourselves as people, and help better the greater of humanity (Like most scientific and medical researchers do)...and help those less fortunate. When an atheist sees a poor person, starving without a home or love, he does not go on his knees and asks a god to help him. An Atheist goes out and helps that person there and then. Well I do anyways, and I know lots of fellow atheists that do the same. We are not

  • phunkylizzy - 2011-07-25 02:43

    I just love how they[media] bring in computer games in to this tragedy. Bet in Genghis Khan's time they blamed in on chess. Anyways what he did was horrific and should not be justified by any means. My hope and prays goes to all those affected.

      Seanred - 2011-07-25 05:43

      "Bet in Genghis Khan's time they blamed in on chess" Great stuff.

      ChumScrubber - 2011-07-25 07:08

      It can definately be blamed on much of modern society. Face it, we love violence in the fantasy world, thus the immense popularity of violent movies, games, sports. We claim to be fuzzy peace loving creatures yet deep down we're still pretty primitive vicious creatures. We just use the fantasy world to control these urges. These days we are bombarded with violence due to modern technologies in communication. It is something that will constantly erupt for eternity.

      Lab-Rat - 2011-07-25 09:46

      ChumScrubber - there no need to look anywhere for the source of voilence. There is more than enough violence in the bible just for starters and people wonder why so many atrocities are commited in the name of religion.

  • CorneN - 2011-07-25 05:49

    Hectic. Some of the comments above just shows that there an equal amount of extremist crazies in the Christian camp. Would you religious nuts like a continent of your own where you can battle it out in the name of your gods and cultures?

      InternetMan - 2011-07-25 07:39

      This is the best solution I have ever heard. I wonder what percentage of the population of earth takes religion seriously though? Seriously enough to kill that is.

  • Jabulani Pilime - 2011-07-25 07:13

    I just read on BBC,it says that the maximum sentence for this crime is 21 years but can be raised depending on circumstances.I think that this guy was out to prove that he was more savage than anyone else on this planetstances.I think that this guy was out to prove that he was more savage than anyone else on this planet

  • Human - 2011-07-25 07:22

    The world holds two classes of men – intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence. – Abu’l?Ala al Ma’arri

      Lab-Rat - 2011-07-25 09:48

      Well said. There is most certainly an inverse relationship between religiosity and intellect.

      Jack - 2011-07-25 09:50

      You must be the exception - the one without either!?

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:35

      @ Lab-Rat - "professing themselves to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22) - congrats, you've just proven the Bible correct :-)

  • birdman - 2011-07-25 07:43

    Religious fanatacism will be the end of mankind! "My religion is better than your's, because my God is better than your's" When will people realise that there is only one God? He's the same whether you are Christian, Muslim or Jewish.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 10:36

      You obviously haven't studied religion...

  • nvl - 2011-07-25 07:55

    A sin is a sin is a sin, you commit one murder or 10 murders, it is a sin. All sins are "equal" in the eyes of God…one sinful act can not be more sinful than another, it's just a sin.

      Mad Hatter - 2011-07-25 08:42

      So stealing a piece of bread to eat is 'equal' to the rape and murder of a child?

      nvl - 2011-07-25 09:52

      To a Christian stealing, raping and murder are all the same, they are all acts against God...its the punishment that is different Not the sin.

  • Jabulani Pilime - 2011-07-25 08:09

    u r right birdman but humans never seem to learn and have this primal instinct to destroy each other,it is like an inbuilt thing(for population control perhaps?).If we are not killing each other due to racial differences w r doing it for religion,ideologies or money.I think dogs r better civilised than us at least they use their teeth to fight and not dum-dum bullets,nuclear bombs and all those intelligent destructive machinese an inbuilt thing(for population control perhaps?).If we are not killing each other due to racial differences w r doing it for religion,ideologies or money.I think dogs r better civilised than us at least they use their teeth to fight and not dum-dum bullets,nuclear bombs and all those intelligent destructive machines

  • HueyPNewton - 2011-07-25 08:22

    To all the posters above who keep saying this man: "is obviously not christian". Are you just too embarrassed that one of your own pulled off such in act in the name of your religion/god? Please explain what makes him "not christian". Surely not because he killed??? If you were to take out all christians who kill, lie, steal, fornicate, envy, observe sabbath, hate, touch little boys then there won't be any left. So please, explain to me, what makes you more christian than him??

      HueyPNewton - 2011-07-25 08:24

      I mean "not observe" sabbath.

      LightSide - 2011-07-25 09:43

      A Christian is someone who has repented of their sinful nature and turned to God the way the bible says that God intended them to; through His Son. If you define an obediant Christian as someone who keeps Christ's commandments, then this man is not an obediant Christian if Christian at all. Christians are commanded to love their enemies not blow them to bits. This man is not an obedient Christian according to the bible's standards. He was not in God's will and probably not a Christian in the first place as his view of repentance is questionable at best.

      Enlightened - 2011-07-25 10:43

      What if the church commands them to 'defend' themselves in the name of Christ? Are those that kill thousands still Christian? They truly believed what they were doing was righteous.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 12:28

      I'm not embarrassed! The guy did a horrible thing but his FB profile says "Christian" so now he's deemed to be a Christian fundamentalist. Let's wait to see how the story unfolds... in UK media they're suggesting links to extremist parties (ie. Nazis) even though this man said he dislikes such people. I have now checked 3 different overseas media sources and NOT ONE mentions "he's a Christian". It's ONLY News24 that is harping on about it and hmm I wonder why... the same reason as there are 5 Malema stories per day?

      HueyPNewton - 2011-07-25 12:56

      @Matt. Strange, I've just googled the guy and the first article I got, from does mention that he's christian. As we all know, news24 copies and pastes stories from overseas news sources, so it can't be just them calling him a christian.

      Zee - 2011-07-25 15:11

      @Matt - please remember this thread next time an article about Islamic extremism comes up! It's wrong to generalise on an entire faith because of the deeds of a few mad people. I find it strange that so many here generalise when it's Islam, and now try and separate the issue when it's Christianity. Clearly double standards wouldn't you agree? It's clear as day.

      Bambi - 2011-07-26 07:19

      @Huey - nothing makes me more christian than him. We all are God's children and like you said in God's eyes sin is sin whether you steal a chappie or hi-jack a celeb - you're a sinner. I don't condone or agree what this guy has done it's disgusting and is definitely not something the God I serve would ever instruct a man to do. What makes me DIFFERENT to him is that I have personal relationship with Jesus, I pray, confess my sins and refrain from repeating them. This guy acted on his own - and if he really is the christian he says he is then he'll show some remorse, he may not turn back time and un-do what he's done but it's a start!

  • Bulls_rule - 2011-07-25 08:37

    Nog 'n voorbeeld van hoe gevaarlik godsdiens is..... Ons as ateiste moet ophou om so beleefd te wees teenoor mense wat aan godsdiens-misleiding ly, ons moet meer uitgesproke wees oor die gevare daarvan.

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-25 10:05

      Ek stem volkome met jou saam. Laat hulle on militant noem as hulle wil. Die waarheid is heel anders.

      gary.dasilva - 2011-07-25 10:09

      Well then I am an Athiest

      vinnythesaff - 2011-07-25 10:15

      Please speak Arabic, boet...Apparently most here can't understand what you're saying...If you live in a garage, you're not a car. If you've read Tolstoy, you're not a professor...The list of course, is possibly endless. He is a crazy, more satanistic than christian, but after all, he is mostly human. - and we humans all think differently. Thats the way it is. What he did is abhorrent, but he did it as a human being. He is the one at fault, not "Christianity" Sien Jay?

      Bulls_rule - 2011-07-25 10:31

      @vinnythesaff: I'm criticizing religion in general, not only Christianity.... And don't you think it's interesting that the 'crazies' as you call them are often drawn to religion? It will be nice if no religions existed for these people to use as a 'cause' to murder for...

      Risen Ape - 2011-07-25 11:16

      @ Matt:0 Stalin het nie gemoor agv sy ongeloof in gode en towernaars nie. Ook nie omdat hy bruin oe gehad het nie net soos Hitler nie gemoor het omdat hy 'n vegitarier was nie. Hy het gemoor agv die politieke ideologie waarin hy geglo het.

      daaivark - 2011-07-25 11:23

      Ai Shamepies, Matt. Ons is a nare spul, nie waar nie.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 11:25

      @ Risen Ape - if religion is dangerous, then the alternative would be to have no religion. I just gave 2 examples of what can happen if a state is atheist. Interesting how Stalin allowed Soviet citizens to start believing in a God again from the 1940s onwards :-)

      Bulls_rule - 2011-07-25 11:48

      Matt, jy moet bietjie na jou syfers kyk jong. Jy het daar omtrent met 100 gemaal!! En ja, ateiste doen ook walglike dinge. Maar die verskil is dat hulle dit nie doen in die naam van ateisme nie, en dat daar nie 'n ateistiese beweging is wat mense stelselmatig beinvloed om sulke walglikhede uit te voer soos wat sekere ekstreme moslem-en christen interpretasies doen nie.

  • Michael Pitt - 2011-07-25 08:56

    i dont condone it at all bu, isnt he doing what the jihad says in the koran but just "christian" , but he is a special type of crazy

  • Stacey - 2011-07-25 09:03

    Life is real people,but at the end of the day-we only live one life and might as well live for the good things in life and whatever happens in Europe in the future, why cant we just man up and deal with it in a civilized manner. This man let fear get the better of him.Shame for all the innocent people he had to bring down with him.

  • Markal - 2011-07-25 09:05

    And so it begins...

  • JMan - 2011-07-25 09:17

    All in the name of god.....again. I rest my case.

  • AlphaOne - 2011-07-25 09:18

    Does he realise that christianity nearly destroyed his norse culture during the christianification of Scandanavia, like it did in so many other countries.

  • Lab-Rat - 2011-07-25 09:20

    This isn't the first mad man that christianity has raised and sure won't be the last either. If there was no religion, the world would be a better, safer place. You would never see an atheist killing in the name of atheism.

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 11:28

      No but instead you can take religion out of a country and see what happens... USSR, China, Cuba... funny how after decades of atheist-only rule in 2 of those countries, they instantly reverted to religion the second they got the opportunity. Hmm, wonder why...

      mike - 2011-07-25 12:31

      because they are as naive as you

      HueyPNewton - 2011-07-25 12:59

      @Matt. What about the violence in "religious" South Africa.

      Bambi - 2011-07-26 07:06

      @Huey - how often do you see parliament sittings being opened with prayer? NEVER that's how often! That was something the Apartheid regime USED to do remember? You wonder why our country is such a mess there's your answer, our leaders don't know God, they are a godless bunch who think only of themselves, they are corrupt, steal, stab each other in the back and then wonder why the country is falling to pieces at the seams. Sickening really, bring God back into every decision made in this country and HE will make this country a living testimony of HIS never ending love, grace, mercy and forgiveness!

  • gary.dasilva - 2011-07-25 10:07

    In the name of religion people must be slaughtered - because your god is better than my god - well then I want NOTHING to do with religion.

  • Yip - 2011-07-25 10:08

    A Christian will never do what this guy did. A true Christian's life is one that is known for, love one another. He is most certainly not a Christian. What he did is barbaric.

      Enlightened - 2011-07-25 10:49

      Dude, he is Christian, no questions asked. He did an evil thing, fact. Does that mean that Christians are evil, of course not! Same applies for Islam, not all Muslims are suicide bombers.

  • tommo - 2011-07-25 10:35

    Lets hope this doesn't set off some crazy bored loser here in SA, who goes on a rampage when his PC breaks after 100 straight hours of world of thickcraft. I've seen some disturbing posts right here on N24 man...

  • Sharief - 2011-07-25 10:58


      InternetMan - 2011-07-25 11:35

      Typing in caps does not do much to make you not seem like some religious nutter.. just btw.

  • Sharief - 2011-07-25 11:05

    @ ROMANS8...u talk alot of crap,where did u hear that Islam wants to convert the world world by the sword,u idiot..THIS WORLD BELONGS TO GOD,AND IF GOD SAID THAT ISLAM WILL RULE THEN ISLAM WILL RULE..

      Phantom - 2011-07-25 12:39

      Sharief, Romans8 is right. Take a look at what happened in Egypt. Before the rise of Islam, Egypt belonged to the Copts, who embraced Christianity. Then Islam conquered Egypt and subjected them to Islamic rule. Moreover, the Islamic Arabs outbred the Copts to such an extent that today they make up approximately only 10% of the population. Copts today are severely persecuted in Egypt and are treated like foreigners, in their own country. The same is happening to Europe. If you don't believe me, go do the research. The evidence is there and you can't flee from it.

      HueyPNewton - 2011-07-25 13:04

      @Phantom. and what was there before christianity?? Oh by the way, western culture/christianity conquered South Africa, America, Australia and subjected those places to Western/Christian rule.

      Phantom - 2011-07-25 13:12

      Okay, HueyPNewton, but Western/Christian rule do not persecute them in the name of Christianity. By the way, you cannot say SA's government is by any means Christian today, neither can you call the apartheid government Christian.

      Zee - 2011-07-25 15:20

      @Phantom - and how would you justify the crusades? Was that not Christian persecution in order to divide and conquer? Who colonised most of the world if we look at history? Saudi? Iraq? Or was it England, Spain, Portugal or Holland? So why was that ok, and yet when other people do it it's wrong? This is what blows my mind - the sheer hypocrisy of Christians to support each other in an action, and then label others as wrong when they do EXACTLY the same action.

      TheWally - 2011-07-25 17:34

      Phantom: The crusades were so ignorant at the time of there conquests of Jerusalem that they even killed Christians just because they thought they were muslims because they wore clothing that people of that culture wore. One of the People they killed was Sahudien Ayubies daughter and after he (Ayubie) ruled Jerusalem, what did he do?... did he take revenge and kill all the chrisitians and crusades, no he didnt, he didnt even force them to become Muslim (there is no compulsion in religion in Islamic teaching). Instead he allowed them there freedom aswell as freedom to practice there religion aswell.. it might help if you picked up a book or two.

  • cpdennis1 - 2011-07-25 11:23

    Religion is the root of all evil, it has caused hundreds of millions of deaths around the world in the last 2500 years. What to do about it? How to control it?

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 11:32

      Hundreds of millions? Where did you get those figures? There are no definite stats and every olden-day battle where there are stats generally report casualties in the thousands or tens-of-thousands? BTW, just from 2 atheist states - USSR and China - up to 170 million deaths. That's in FEWER THAN 100 years. Actually the main slaughter in USSR lasted about 20-30 years tops and in China about 20 years... go figure

      Flamewulf - 2011-07-25 14:43

      Christianity is the root of all evil? Islam is the root of all evil? Judaism is the root of all evil? Buddhism is the root of all evil? Hinduism is the root of all evil? Taoism is the root of all evil? Shintoism is the root of all evil? African religion is the root of all evil? Native Ameican folklore is the root of all evil? Shamanism is the root of all evil? Druidism is the root of all evil? Do you realise just how stupid it actually sounds when you say that religion is the root of all evil?

  • Phantom - 2011-07-25 11:45

    You atheists commenting here are just a bunch of hypocrites. When you take control of a country, what is the first thing you would do? Ban all religion. And if people refuse to leave their religious practices and resist? What would you do then? Answer the question yourselves.

      Bulls_rule - 2011-07-25 11:57

      Certainly not. The only thing I will change is to discourage the indoctrination of young children to believe what their parents believe. Leave them alone and just teach them to be critical and open-minded and to make their own decisions. If they then still choose to be delusional, let them be...

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 12:33

      @ Bulls_rule - your answer appears good - raise them to have an open mind and let them make up their minds. Problem is, by doing that you've pretty much made their mind up for them. Just as mine raised me to have an open mind and make my choices - yet totally sent me on the path of atheism. How exactly do you raise a child to decide for themselves if you keep saying religion is bad - children look up to their parents and will believe anything they say! And when later on I became a Christian, well suddenly it was a huge problem for them - even though the idea was to raise me to make up my own mind...

      Bulls_rule - 2011-07-25 12:48

      @Matt - I had the opposite experience. Raised as a christian, and being told that 'THIS is how it is, and if you even question it you're committing a sin. And atheists are evil and belongs to the devil and will burn in hell'. It took me 30 years to throw off the indoctrination and to start thinking clearly. I'm not saying it's easy to raise your children open-minded and able to make their own decisions. A good starting point is to never talk in absolutes, as in 'Christianity is evil, and atheism is right'. If my children ask me what I believe, I tell them what I think and also explain to them WHY I think the way I do. And I also make it clear to them that whatever they decide one day, it will not change the fact that I love them.

  • Magdaleen Goosen - 2011-07-25 12:13

    Doesn't matter what religion anyone is, it doesn't give anyone the right to take a life, especially young ones like these that were taken!

      Matt :-) - 2011-07-25 12:35

      Agreed! For all the differences we have on here, I would NEVER wish murder upon any of my bros/sistas no matter how nasty they write sometimes.

  • Rita - 2011-07-25 12:32

    Risen ape you are off your trolley or just dumber than a ape. Atheists murdered more people than anyone else ever did. Or do you think the hundreds of millions killed by ahtiest communists in the USSR, China, Cambodia, Africa, Cuba etc. are not human beings but just effing cannon fodder.

      stuart.steedman - 2011-07-25 12:37

      Riiiiight, and the whole Crusades / Inquisition / IRA thing is just a blip on the radar? Also, USSR, China and Cambodia etc didn't kill in the name of atheism, unlike you lot who tend to rope in God to support your genocide.

  • Drac's Back - 2011-07-25 13:15

    A madman like this guy can start a war as proven by all the comments above. Suddenly Christians, Muslims Atheists and the rest are all at each others throats. Shows again how primitive human nature still is. We need to condemn the actions instead of trying to label him and each other. If not we are entertaining the same mentality as him. Lets rise above it and condemn those that turn to violence to reach their objectives regardless of what group they belong to.

  • Catarina - 2011-07-25 13:52

    Fundamentalim was never the way... This so called Christians should read about Saint Thomas Aquinas, and his theory on the virtue of the Path in the middle. Although I don't think the problem here was about religious points of view. Instead I think this guy had serious xephofobic behaviours and that those were the causes for his actions. It's not difficult at all to understand... In SA we had the tires around the neck... we have withcraft claims that lead to horrifying killings... So I would say to some "fellow" south africans before they start their comments on the behaviour of the Norwegian dude : Before pointing the splinter in my eye, remove the log from yours.

  • Flamewulf - 2011-07-25 13:54

    Whatever happened to "blessed are the peacemakers"? Whatever happened to "Judge not, lest you be judged"? Whatever happened to "love your neighbour as yourself"? Whatever happened to "insofar as it be possible, live peacably with all men"? Why did he not heed these commands from the Bible?

  • Gobsmacked - 2011-07-25 14:37

    @everyone. Julle sit die pot mis! You're all harping on about "in the name of religion." This fool is obviously suffering from some sort of mental disorder. Being a christian or not does not make a difference whatsoever. What he did was so wrong. The Bible clearly tells you that you should not judge others - yet you ALL are doing so in the name of whatever religion! Shame on you for trying to shed christiandom in such a bad light. I don't care if you are pink, purple with polka dots, no-one can condone this type of act - it is absolutely shocking! He should be prosecuted for his acts. This isn't about christiandom, atheist, muslim or other religion, it's about 1 man taking lives for his "so-called" cause ... surely none of you agree with that? He is clearly mentally unstable.

  • slojam - 2011-07-25 14:45

    @pierreedge - Agree with you 100% dude!

  • lance ANCY - 2011-07-25 15:33

    The Illuminati is starting to focus on "soft targets". there will be more attacks in Mall, schools, churches, etc. And they will play the "blame game" for certain religious groups. Then its gonna be Moslems, then its gonna be Christians to blame. Their aim.....for us to loose faith in our religions. Osama Bin laden can't be blames anymore! Open your eyes people and research on these stuff. Its all in the Bible! Its gonna be very very hard to be a Christian for the next 5 years!

  • Drewka - 2011-07-25 20:48

    One thing that people of the NATO countries forget when an incident like this happens is that they (the NATO countries) breeds people like Breivik. Like the leading nations of Western Europe breeded someone like Adolf Hitler in the beginning of the 20th century. Hitler grew up hating the jews for being a threat to the German people and their culture and being in a position later on in his life to do something about the jews, he massacred millions in the name of the 3rd reigh. Breivik also saw multi culture as a threat to what he believes in, and he found a way to justify his anger through killing many innocent people. With the Americans and British promoting the fight against “terror” (but actually Islam) because of Islamic people not sharing the same values as us the western people, we all of the sudden blame far right movements, video games etc. and cry our hearts out when something like this happens. But what does the west promote in the media, on TV and radio, in computer games from big western companies, in western music from crack head rock stars or gangster rappers or slutty pop stars???? What does the west promote when they snipe Islamic leaders (like Bin Laden) because they dedicate their life to what they believe in??? and is that not what Nelson Mandela did before he was imprisoned??? I think we should have a great look at our self’s and what we breed as a western human society.

      Zee - 2011-07-26 15:47

      With respect, and as a Muslim, bin Laden was no leader. The Quran preaches that suicide is an unforgivable sin, and bin Laden and the Taliban use this as a weapon. Therefore he is no leader, and not even Islamic. In fact, he gives the rest of us a bad name! But I do agree that America/Britain are pushing the agenda - their "War on terrorism" is pretty much a war on Islam.

  • hawker - 2011-07-25 23:46

    Everything that he said about why he did what he did, I can agree with, wholeheartedly! But I do not agree that killing innocent people is the way in which to bring about change. I agree with his philosophy, but i think that the only way in which to achieve the reversal of neo-leftism in Western Civilisation, is through exposing leftism for what it is in a peaceful and political way.

  • Bambi - 2011-07-26 07:01

    Isn't is so sad that he says he prayed for the 1st time in many years - the Word of God says in Psalm 46 to '...Be still and know that I am GOD...' how long did this guy wait on GOD to answer him to lead him and show him the right way? I serve a mighty God, I believe He talks to His children that He leads us just like He did with the Isrealites when He led them into the dessert away from Egypt and the Pharoah to the promised land. What this guy did simply cannot be deedmed patriotic or Christlike - the God I serve would never command such a despicable thing to happen. BTW @stuart.steeman hell is a real place you have only to read the Bible to know this.

  • pages:
  • 1