WRAP | Ramaphosa wants transparency at SAA, says state capture hit SA aviation and rail

National Assembly Speaker Nosiviwe Mapisa-Nqakula concluded the business of the National Assembly for the day.

- Khulekani Magubane 

IFP MP Mkhuleko Hlengwa asked Ramaphosa what business logical basis the 51% stake of SAA was sold when it had not be audited for the past four years.

He asked how much the stake was sold for, warning that the Thakatso deal did not inspire confidence in SAA's future. Ramaphosa said he would like to see transparency at SAA as much as Hlengwa does.

He said he hoped to play open cards with Parliament and the South Africa public about the state of play at SAA and its empowerment partner quest.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said he remained confident that the introduction of a strategic empowerment partner to SAA would position the airline for success, with the government keeping the lion share.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Replying to EFF MP Sinawo Tambo, Ramaphosa said the airline business is very risky, but there was no sensible reason for South Africa to destroy its own national carrier. He said South Africa's aviation and rail industry was negatively affected by state capture.

- Khulekani Magubane 

"It (air travel) leads to boom and bust. I would not know the details of what you're talking about, about ComAir. I doubt that SAA would ever have the intention," said Ramaphosa.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa laughed lightly to himself before replying to Steenhuisen. He said he was not aware of a public airline "seeking to destroy" a private airline. He said passenger aviation was very competitive around the world.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Steenhuisen asked Ramaphosa if it was fair for SAA, which lives off of taxpayers' money, to destroy a private airline (ComAir) and continue to receive government funding.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the Africa Free Trade Agreement could see the Free State and Limpopo Province becoming freight hubs for the region. He said with more air travel, rising volumes will stabilise air travel prices.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the support for a strategic equity partners has always been there, although detractors of support to SAA maintained that supporting the airline meant supporting an elite utility that does not serve the masses.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the government wanted prices to be normalised and stabilised. He said the government has pumped R40 billion into the national carrier, which was already facing its own financial and operational challenges.

- Khulekani Magubane 

"Around the world, airline companies get formed and in no time they collapse, and they collapse under the heavy burden of rising jet fuel prices and other operating costs as well," said Ramaphosa.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said prices of everything, including air travel, have gone up astronomically. He said this was driven by the rise in the price of jet fuel, refinement, and logistics services.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said SA is one of 35 AU states that committed to liberalising air services and a single African air transport market. He said this will provide a great opportunity for SA, its airlines and the national carrier SAA.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa is now responding to a question on air travel on the continent.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa tells Steenhuisen that they need to have a drink to discuss BBBEE further.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa asks Steenhuisen to focus on how we apply BBBEE to achieve policies that benefit the majority. Ramaphosa reiterates that the economy should benefit everyone.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa responds to a question from DA leader John Steenhuisen. The policies of the past meant that white people were privileged over and above the black South Africans. We need to correct that.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says he has never been to Orania - a whites only Afrikaner separatists town in the Northern Cape.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says through BBBEE, the government wants to empower women. He also refers to the government’s black industrialists programme. There is a great deal of progress, but it will take some time, says Ramaphosa.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says he would still tie young white South Africans to a tree because he wants them here. “They are South Africans.”

- Jason Felix

Groenewald tells Ramaphosa to forget about colour, and think of equality to build the country.

- Jason Felix 

Groenewald accepts the invitation for a cup of tea.

“Why in your campaign you wanted to keep white people to a tree because you want your skills. White people don’t want special treatment. They only ask for equal treatment,” Groenewald tells Ramamphosa.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says he looks forward to a cup of tea with Groenewald to discuss the matter further.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa now speaks of ownership of properties.“87% of the land was reserved for white people and 13% for black people. All those policies of the past needs to be addressed. Let us transform and include all South Africans.”

- Jason Felix 

White mineworkers lived in the suburbs, they had cars and benefits. “Surely we must all agree that that has to be addressed,” Ramaphosa says.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says during the apartheid days, there was a law that only white people could become certificates mine workers. Black conducted the hard labour in the mines, Ramaphosa says. “All the white miner would do is look and press a button to detonate,” Ramaphosa says.

- Jason Felix 

These policies will continue. “If we don’t, how we will have an inclusive economy,” Ramaphosa says.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says blacks have inherited poverty from generation to generation. He says BBBEE policies have been introduced to ensure that there is a meaningful transformation.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says unless the economy is opened up to all South Africans, the country will never grow.

Ramaphosa says he does not know any black person who has inherited something from their parents. But on the white side, almost all white people inherited something from their parents, he says.

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa says BBBEE and affirmative action were introduced to address the imbalances of apartheid.

While progress has been made to empower black people and women in our economy, these policies have not been felt by the majority, Ramaphosa says.

- Jason Felix 

The next question is from FF Plus leader Pieter Groenewald. His question reads: “Whether, considering the fact that increasing calls are being made by persons and communities that black economic empowerment (BEE) and affirmative action (AA) no longer serve their purpose, do not address inequality and seriously constrain the economy, he and the Government will consider lifting BEE and AA; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details.”

- Jason Felix 

Ramaphosa said technologies continue to improve and become more efficient. He said he looked forward to technologies that could make clean coal more accessible at a feasible price.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said: "The CSIR is absolutely correct. It is a technology that needs to be looked at and possibly embarked upon. It has been found by Eskom to be hugely expensive, massively expensive at the current moment".

- Khulekani Magubane 

EFF MP Floyd Shivambu asked if the decommissioning of coal power stations in line with SA's transition and climate funding will include decommissioning Medupi and Kusile. He asked if SA should rather look at clean coal rather than decommission coal.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the government knows that the country's path is that of a transition, although there is still considerable reliance on fossil fuels that cannot be wished away. He said leaders lending SA climate funds knew this as well.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa replied: "There is no double speak on this. We are committed to what is set out in our IRP. Our IRP is very clear on a mixed energy transition for our country".

- Khulekani Magubane 

Steenhuisen said to draw funding for the energy transition, South Africa needed credibility. He pointed out that Mantashe said this funding should be accepted if Eskom continues to invest in some fossil fuels. He asked how this commitment will be squared with the energy transition.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa repeated that on the path to 2030, the energy transition would cost South Africa trillions of rand. He said first world countries have come forward to assist SA with funding agreements, but that they have not made good on all of these agreements. He said some remain "offers" and proposals.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the transition must be done on the basis of consensus. He said the Presidential Climate Change Commission had a number of experts with broad knowledge on the environment.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the funding was a breakthrough for South Africa but that the Presidential Climate Change Commission will have to look more closely at how to use the funding its its own transition.

"Our coal-fired power stations, a number of them are nearing the end of their lives. As they get there, they need to have a just transition," said Ramaphosa.

He said while jobs will be lost, unions, civil society groups and been forthcoming in interventions to ensure that the transition does not leave too many marginalised people behind.

- Jan Gerber 

Ramaphosa said: "The $8.5 billion may sound substantial, but it isn't. The World Bank has projected that we will need a couple trillion of Rands to navigate our way through a proper and just transition."

- Khulekani Magubane 

In his supplementary question, Singh asked Ramaphosa about the $8.5 billion promised to South Africa to assist in the energy transition and if the government was doing enough to help the private sector to upskill for the transition as the country reduces fossil fuel consumption.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the commission must monitor government performance against its targets. He said the commission will play a role in enhancing South Africa's response to climate change and navigating the just transition.

- Khulekani Magubane 

He said the commission recommended addressing emissions within the framework of a just transition and will undertake an implementation plan, including local government planning, climate-resilient projects, net zero emission targets, and climate funding. Recommendations are due in the first half of 2023.

- Khulekani Magubane 

Ramaphosa said the commissioners and the secretariat made recommendations to the government on a just transition, recognising the high levels of unemployment, poverty and inequality.

- Khulekani Magubane 

IFP MP Narend Singh asked Ramaphosa how the Presidential Climate Commission intends to assist with creating actionable policies for the domestic environmental institutions that will align them with the Government’s global commitments to climate change.

- Khulekani Magubane 

We need to bring people back into cities, particularly the poor," says Ramaphosa.

- Jan Gerber